|
|
Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Dec 29, 2004 9:47:42 GMT
Of all The Doors albums TSP seems about the most difficult they ever made. If ever a Doors album has the ring of 'committee' thinking then this one has. Probably most Doors fans least fave album but for all its faults I do love the record but it seems to be searching for direction as though its trapped in a maze trying to find an exit before its air runs out. George Harrison visited the sessions in November 1968 and was heard to remark that the session reminded him of The Sergeant Pepper album in the complexity of the recording process he witnessed. Touring and Paul Rothchilds insane compulsion to record perfect tracks added to the dissillusionment of Jim Morrison at this period which resulted in his Miami statement and subsequent legal hassle. There has been a lot of discussion on many a board as to what the album would have sounded like if it had been recorded in the spirit of the first two and had not gone for fancy production and an orchestral track. It must be noted that the orchestra is predominantly on the Krieger tracks and Robby had a 'touch' for a damn good 'pop' song that benefitted by orchestration whilst Jims songs always delved deeper and were better if interpreted by The Doors rather than a room full of session guys. I have always argued against a re-release of TSP without orchestra as I feel that messing with History is a poor idea. Just look at the Beatles equivalent of R$ay Paul McCartney who rewrites the bands history (now he wrote all the songs and John just made the tea) and puts out Beatles albums 30 years later in whatever style HE feels will make him a few quid. The six Doors albums to ME are there and we should leave them alone. Flaws and all. They are moments in time captured for us and should remain just that. Re-Mastering is one thing but tinkering to suit A B or Cs idea of what they SHOULD sound like is out as far as I am concerned. TSP without an orchestra would no longer BE The Soft Parade. Its an interesting debate and why not have it here. Do any of you support a string-less TSP? If so why not remix LA Woman and include a banjo or do a reggae version of WTMO? Doors history is all we have left of the band now and I feel we should let it rest in peace.....  |
|
|
|
Post by jym on Dec 29, 2004 12:39:07 GMT
I agree the artists made their statement in the context it was meant to be. I think because we have the technology to do things doesn't necessarily mean they should be done, let's take all Picasso's cubist paintings and straigten them out.
I can take or leave certain TSP songs, but it also contains some of the most interesting songs such as Shaman's Blues, Wild Child, although the title track is almost too pretty for The Doors.
|
|
|
|
Post by ensenada on Dec 29, 2004 20:07:43 GMT
first ive heard of talk about tsp being changed, where this come from? i am totally against it, like you say alex...it is a piece of doors history and it shouldnt be changed or messed with. how will they manage to change it and take the orchestra out anyway?
|
|
|
|
Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Dec 29, 2004 20:16:35 GMT
The LL had a big discussion about it about a year or so ago. It was brought up on a few forums.
Many favoured a string less TSP album....if a tape exists somewhere which features versions of the songs without strings then bring it on but to just do it, like Jim says, because we can opens up a Pandora's Box....
|
|
|
|
Post by pantydropper on Jan 2, 2005 22:44:59 GMT
I for one enjoyed the LA Woman DVD-A because of the "differences" in each song so i wouldn't mind a TSP "naked" with out strings.
To me, they can make it a DVD-A (like LA Woman) and they could include Who Scared You (which should have been included to begin with).
I wouldn't look at it as "messing with history", instead I would view it as a different way to listen to the album we all love.
I for one am all for it.
|
|
|
|
Post by jym on Jan 3, 2005 0:29:59 GMT
King, I understand your point but don't you think if they wanted to have a song with or without the strings or with zydeco that was a choice they made a long time ago? I mean it really does open a can of worms why not take Citizen Kane & put a car chase in it? Or Riders on the Storm & add rap, whoops too late for that ;D It might be interesting & being a Doors fan I might find work tapes of the song interesting, but that's working up to a point, a finished artwork. I mean what's to stop people from putting a Hitler mustache on the Mona Lisa, I mean it's interesting.
P.S. I'm kinda enjoying making up these examples. Stop me before I metaphor again. How about a simile face here?
|
|
|
|
Post by pantydropper on Jan 3, 2005 1:40:40 GMT
What they could do is, if they make TSP a DVD-A release, make it to where we have the option to hear the strings or to not hear them. I would buy it just for the bump up in sound quality.
Again, to me it's not a matter of "messign with history".
|
|
|
|
Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Jan 3, 2005 1:58:56 GMT
Interesting thing is it took 9 months from recording to release so during that time there must have been a wealth of out-take material as well as tracks that were worked on and never used. Add to that all the rehearsal time before the recording began in November 1968....who knows what was taped there? Rothchild was searching for perfection and made take after take of songs. With all the spare time they had due to all thier gigs being cancelled after Maimi its inconceivable that they did not spend a lot more time in the studio than normal. The Rock Is Dead session is from this time.  Would make a cool DVD release as King says if some of this stuff was ever found......adding Who Scared You would make the album a little more complete as well. I guess there is a case for a Waiting For the Sun DVD with COTL as well.  I cannot say I favour a stringless TSP unless someone found the tapes prior to the addition of the orchestra but if a DVD like King suggests ever made it to the stores I would be there on day 1 to buy it... |
|
|
|
Post by jym on Jan 3, 2005 2:59:00 GMT
You know I would argue for a Waiting for the Sun with a Celebration on it, than a nude Soft Parade because that was the original intention of The Doors. It all kind of got lost because of Morrison's drinking, I think the Waiting for the Sun is the worst Doors album, except for a couple of shining gems a pretty bland and unfocused album, especially right after Strange Days.
I think you're right Alex a DVD of the Soft Parade sessions would be pretty interesting thing, should we send the idea to R$ay??
|
|
|
|
Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Jan 3, 2005 10:27:17 GMT
Considering the farce of COTL on Legacy after the Doors had 'promised' us an out-take disc with a 'plethora' of unreleased material they had found in the back pocket of an old pair of Jims jeans hanging up in Robbys mums garage I imagine it would be pretty much a waste of an email...  |
|
|
|
Post by ensenada on Jan 3, 2005 13:33:49 GMT
its a shame cotl wasnt on an album, i love it. as for TSP, if they could find a stringless version somewhere then it would be interesting to hear, without a doubt. because that in itself would be a piece of doors history. but to take it now and mess wth it dosnt sound so good to me. although how they would mess with it is beyond me!
|
|
|
|
Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Jan 8, 2005 17:41:36 GMT
Late one night in the Elektra Studios, after listening to the just-completed mix of the Soft Parade album we were typically drunk and Morrison was more than a little apprehensive about the album. For the first time the Doors had recorded with horns and strings and only a few of the songs were Jim's own. I began to break his chops about the sleek and expensive look of the studios and offices, which had been financed almost completely from the profits of the first two Doors' albums.
“Jesus, look at this place, Morrison, it's fucking disgusting. You did this, Jim. You financed this whole round-haircut establishment. Why'n fuck don't you just move your whole corporate operations up to Sacramento with the rest of the bureaucrats? I mean look at this, man. Your songs, your words paid for this.”<br>
I indicated the brand new latest-model IBM typewriters and shiny file cabinets and desks. Jim had a slight smile and was silent, but I could see it was getting to him. He looked at the equipment as the others with us tried to suppress nervous laughter. Next thing we knew, Jim hopped on top of the desk and began to heel-stomp the costly IBM, kicking it to the floor and jumping down on it, then pouring beer over papers and files. I thought sure there would be hell to pay, but the next day the mess was cleaned up and nothing was ever mentioned about it.
Jim Morrison demanded a reaction. Women wanted to fuck him, boys wanted to idolize him, men wanted to challenge him.
Tom Baker from Blue Center Light
|
|
|
|
Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Jan 22, 2005 16:48:17 GMT
Friday July 18th 1969, The Soft Parade Album is
Released.
In an 1981 interview with Musician, Manzarek said
the group was ready to move on to their next phase
and to do something different, like recording with
horns and strings. The use of strings from the Los
Angeles Philharmonic and horns of local jazz musicians
generated a swell of critical response.
In the underground newspaper, 'Northwest Passage', Rob Cline wrote:
"The Doors, while trying to explore new musical horizons, fell flat on their asses. Does a rock 'n' roll group really need violins and trombones? The Doors are the best when getting it on straight and hard as witness their first 2 albums."
David Walley in 'The East Village Other' took direct aim, stating that the album was:
"badly messed up by the syrupy arrangements of Paul
Rothchild" and could be retitled, The Rothchild Strings Play The Doors. Miller Francis, Jr., in the underground
newspaper, 'The Great Speckled Bird', felt "that a misfire in poetic 'Art Rock' like The Soft Parade comes on so fucking pretentious, like something written rather than something sung." Many in the underground felt betrayed, yet there were those who had hated the first albums but insisted this fourth one marked the maturity of the group away from teenybopdom. A reviewer in the Ottawa underground newspaper, 'Octopus', wrote that: "I always hated The Doors and Jim Morrison and found their previous albums boring. This time it is different. The sensual, animal, back to the hills, down on it sound is emphasized
by the light use of strings and horns... [The Doors]
have progressed, this album is not just for the teen
queens to get horny over, it is an interesting, tough
and important album."
Ray said that in retrospect using horns and strings "probably wasn't the best idea
we ever had, but we enjoyed doing it".
Robby Krieger said he didn't "really like orchestrating the songs" on this album and would never have done it - it had been Rothchild's idea.
Did the Doors sell-out? In an 1981 interview, the person some accused of gumming up
the lucid Doors sound with the syrupy resonance of
strings and horns, Paul Rothchild, said that the
intention of this album was "to hit the mass market, with horns, strings, the full orchestra treatment". He
also said in another interview that to get Jim
Morrison interested while making The Soft Parade was "like pulling teeth".
|
|
|
|
Post by jym on Jan 22, 2005 18:29:14 GMT
I think it's too easy for them to blame Rothchild, he just saw Jim's boredom & (probably) the dearth of ideas of the rest made a suggestion & they said OK, they have to take ultimate responsibility it's their name on the album.  |
|
|
|
Post by othercircles on May 4, 2005 2:01:00 GMT
Let It Be Naked was a brilliant idea and I snatched it up right away. Its now a great album where as before it was overly produced and under rehearsed. Noone tried to "change history" because everyone buying knows all about what was done.
I'd be totally in favor of a stripped "The Soft Parade" It would still be great.. as the orchestration was totally unnessesary on most of the tracks.
|
|
|
|
Post by eressie on May 4, 2005 4:22:28 GMT
Bigger is not necessarily better. I want the basic, simple and rough sound of the Doors, not the Philharmonic Orchestra. I don´t like the strings and horns on TSP. If there are any other recordings of these songs, I would at least want to listen to it to compare.
|
|
|
|
Post by othercircles on May 4, 2005 13:38:25 GMT
Yea exactly. I remember seeing that bit in the movie where they're in the studio doing "Touch Me" and the music seemed great without the horns and stuff. Shame Val couldnt sing it so they made it seem like....... "oh thisll be a Jim is shitfaced scene... " lol I wonder.. did they redo the music new... or did they actually have the origional tapes somewhere sans real vocals and horns.. to which the actors mimed and Val sang?
|
|
|
|
Post by nick on Jul 26, 2005 3:18:16 GMT
I’ve always loved the entire album - not out of obsession with the band or fondness of the sound tho - and everything they done together (save perhaps Land Ho which seems to have no substance to the writing, but sort of cool too; or a few lines from Tell All the People like ‘can’t you see the wonder at your feat’ make me momentarily wanna change tracks, such as I feel listening to Dylan’s Lay, Lady, Lay when it gets to certain parts)- A friend of mine from early on in high school, on my first getting turned onto The Doors and listening to albums at his house (as I couldn’t afford any or spent my money on beer) said his favorite song of The Doors was Tell All the People- yet argued me they had a lot of songs that weren’t very good- Does that thinking even add up? I get the feeling maybe he didn’t care for Waiting For the Sun- ANYWAY!
Fundamentally, what’s the difference between releasing a concert in it’s entirety that had tracks included on Absolutely Live - that had ‘2000’ edits? (Altho that aint much of an argument.) Jim’s not being too into the process, gives me the impression tho that he wouldn’t have had a problem with a few less production flourishes. On one had it would be a bit revisionist and a bit of an admittance that it was a sub par effort on their part… so keep it in a limited edition- that way your more die hard fans get a look at what the album would have been like without all the orchestral effects but at the same time it isn’t being pushed into as many hands. Keep it as an add-in… and keep the title track intact. Toss in Who Scared You (hell it’s only a 34 minute album) as aforementioned and outtakes where possible- and where not take out a few things but not altogether strip it- so you’re really not even having that much done to it. Nine tracks and leaving Soft Parade be leaves eight, an’ maybe they’d have enough to fill in half of those with outtakes or whatever- so you’re only having four tracks actually altered? I'm trying to lissen to the album, tho I don't really have the ear for that, tryin' to imagine the songs without some of the other instruments, and it seems at least to me one would be able to focus on the lyrics better in places without 'em, or have a moment or two without such a full sound that may add to the feeling/overall effect of the track.
|
|
|
|
Post by othercircles on Jul 26, 2005 4:36:06 GMT
I've absorbed this album more in the past few months and now I'm used to it and dont have a problem with the horns really. However I dig Robbies guitar solo that he did live.. particularly Live In Hollywood (The Aquarius 1969)
|
|
|
|
Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Jul 26, 2005 12:10:53 GMT
I hoped they would never go down the Beatles road of milking the recorded work for ever drop of money they can get out of fans but The Doors record is not good so I imagine we will eventually see just an album in the next few years. Once they do the fake '40th anniversary' and re release all the albums and a few new best ofs they will start to look at new ways to make a few bucks......this is one of the most obvious....  |
|
