When You’re Strange: Critique?

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

John Densmore & Tom DiCillo promoting WYS in Paris 2010

[kristyob]

A very interesting thread, so fascinating to read about all the attempts to get films made. Around 2002 I tried to make a documentary film about Jim with Steven Wheeler and another partner. Frank was interested in participating as a consultant...for $25,000. Make of that what you will. Sadly we had a falling out and it never did get made.

Sure Jim's friends have done much to counter the negative myths surrounding him and put on a more human face. Frank was instrumental in helping to make Morrison's poetry more accessible, no doubt about it.

But it is my personal opinion that Jim is still a cash cow to many....not just the obvious culprits.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Mar 22, 2011 16:49:30 GMT kristyob said:

But it is my personal opinion that Jim is still a cash cow to many....not just the obvious culprits.

Well I have to admit that I still hold out the hope of getting a large Gin & Tonic out of John.
Gordons with a slice of lime (not lemon) ....no crap!

[kristyob]

Lol, finally a man with a brilliant idea!!!

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

"Jim Morrison as Dionysus, A Greek God reincarnate. Whereas Apollo was the God od light, clear thought, logical thinking. Dionysus was the God of feeling, spontaneity, the dance, music.
Dionysus enters the body through the ears via music through primitive rhythms.
And Jim was Dionysus personified.
The man onstage was an absolute genius, a human theatricon. From one performance to the next you never knew what he was going to be. Sometimes a Devil sometimes a saint. Sometimes an angel sometimes a demon from Hell, the Banshee himself."
Ray Manzarek 1978.

Obviously at that time fans such as myself did not know how much Ray Manzarek talks out of his arce and this sort of comment was Manna from heaven for Doors fans during the 70s.
Ray as usual just spouting his shit and not caring a damn that he was distorting the artist into a religious Icon.
To start with The Banshee was NOT a man but a woman so Ray, as he often does, mixes up all manner of religious and mythical mumbo jumbo into sentences and just spews them out in no particular order and that becomes a Ray Manzarek Interview.
The point I am making here is that Ray set the template for the Jim Morrison that has prevailed this last 40 years.
He alone was the instigator and When You're Strange was the product of 40 years of listening to this stupid arce talk about Jim Morrison.
Regardless as to how much Ray had to do with the actual documentary his filthy pawprints are all over this nonsensical portrait of Jim Morrison.

"I've never seen a performer like Jim.It was as if it wasn't Jim but a shaman. Traditionally a shaman was the man of the tribe who would go on a voyage in his mind who could let his astral body project into space and in a sense heal the tribe. Find the things that were needed for the safety and well being of the tribe for the continuance of the species."
Ray Manzarek 1978.

The early establishment of Jim the Shamen had begun even during Jim's lifetime. He himself had spoken about the role of the Shaman in interviews. But I doubt he meant it literally and as he said himself it was meant to be ironic. He spoke of how he played a role on stage and just because he wore the black hat it did not mean he was the bad guy all of the time.
Ray Manzarek is the one who ingrained the Shaman Myth in Morrison folk lore.
Morrison Dionysus personified a shaman healing his tribe.

"Jim was always aware that each moment was precious. A Jewel, a drop of time and that was as all we had. We had the present. Not the Past. Not the future.
When The Doors stepped out on stage all there was was the present. This Holy moment four guys on stage an audience out there and the energy flowing back and forth between them in what became in a sense a communion.
My energy had been totally spent and I felt cleansed of any evil and darkness. We walked out of a concert feeling absolutely in touch with the universe ant that if any was the message of Jim Morrison. You'll be in touch with the Gods, you become Gods. Jim's message was that every man is a God. All you have to do is realise it."
Ray Manzarek 1978.

Now some of what Ray says resonates with me. I saw plenty of concerts where afterwards outside in the colder air of the street I did feel like I was walking on air.
But Ray was seeking to establish Jim Morrison as something beyond all that.
It seems as if even then he was trying to establish the Church Of Morrison on Earth with himself as High Priest.
It is especially hypocritical when you consider that Morrison fought to rid himself of this self perceived image.
He gives us a glimpse of this during the TSP sessions when he was uncomfortable singing Robby's song Tell All The People as he did not want anyone to get their guns and follow him.
But Ray never bothered with such awkward intrusions to his self proclaimed vision of a Messiah. And the good thing about Messiahs is that they usually end up dead and then you can say what you want about them as they will never contradict you.

WYS is the bastard grandson of 70s Ray Manzarek spin doctoring.
Nearly 40 years after the singers death it shows that very little has been learned from Jim Morrison's own words and actions as he tried to distance himself from his own creation.
Instead his voice is ignored in favour of the more sensational voice of Manzarek's ilk.
Tom DiCillo had access to Jim's voice but chose to use it to tell Manzarek's tale rather than Morrison's tale.

WYS portrays Jim Morrison as a religion rather than a fragile sometimes failed human being.
Full of contradictions and not always the nicest person you would want to meet but never a Messiah.
He said himself he did not want to lead but just wanted to make us think.
DiCillo/Manzarek/et al decided there was more profit in the religion rather than the man.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Jim Morrison for president?

According to Ray Manzarek, who co-founded the Doors after he and Morrison met at UCLA film school, Morrison - had he lived - would have shed his Lizard King persona, eased out of rock 'n' roll, made movies for a few years and then plunged into politics, perhaps even running for president.

"That was my plan," Manzarek says from his home in Napa. "We'd get into film and then, after he turned 35, put Jim up for president."

I can imagine Morrison's campaign slogan: "A lizard in every pot!"

But Manzarek, who turned 71 in February, is quite serious about this.

"No one can believe it, but no one knows Jim like I did back in the early days," he says.

"He was such a brilliant, witty guy and such a good human being. He was a whole different person than the Lizard King, the Dionysus that most people know."

Tragically, it was that dark side of Morrison that ended up killing him. In 1971, at the age of 27, he died of a drug overdose in a bathtub in Paris.

Manzarek, who thinks of his late friend as "an American prince," points out that a Hollywood president didn't turn out to be as improbable, as far out as it may have sounded back then.

"I thought in 1966 or '67 that at some point or another, someone from show business was going to be president," he recalls. "And somebody did: Ronald Reagan. I thought, 'Oh, god, no. Wrong guy.'"
Ray Manzarek 2006.

I wonder how much the American Prince was on board with this insanity? Ray says "He was a whole different person than the Lizard King, the Dionysus that most people know" but it is Ray who was responsible for the fact most Doors fans only knew this portrait as Ray never shuts up about it.

Which explains why WYS went down this path of least resistance as it's easier to follow a trail of shit than have to work at finding a more elusive path to explore.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

The Boston Phoenix
Portland, Providence, Boston
By Tom Meek April 5, 2010

Interview: Ray Manzarek of the Doors
The Return Of The Lizard King, Sort Of
So we talked to Tom and he had a lot of great ideas, especially the whole shamanic thing with Morrison driving in his car and hearing about the death of Jim Morrison. It was something Tom wanted to cut back to [in the film]; Jim Morrison coming back to Los Angeles even if he was dead, or is he? [The footage was from a short film Morrison made during the recording of L.A. Woman, the Doors last album with Morrison]. I thought it was an interesting idea.

"So WE talked to Tom. I thought it was an in interesting idea"
Here we see Ray exert his influence on the DiCillo film. We talked but I thought.
Makes you wonder if John was part of Ray's we?

Q Where did all the great archival footage come from?

A We have it all in a vault at the office. We’re down the hall from the Eagles and they have tons and tons of tape. The footage was shot by Jim and I and one of our buddies from the UCLA Film School, Paul Ferrara, and we’ve had the footage ever since we started shooting it, right after “Light My Fire.” So it’s been sitting there, it just hasn’t been used in quite some while.

This is interesting as I cannot recall reading anywhere that Ray shot any footage from either FOF or HWY. Maybe he was disguised.

Q Did Oliver Stone, during that making of that movie, ever consult any of you guys?

He talked to me, and he talked to John and Robby, sure. But he didn’t hear what I had to say, he had his own vent. He had his own twisted vent he wanted to make and he did, fine. Now this [When You’re Strange] is the antidote to the poison Oliver Stone spewed out 20 years ago.

"Now this [When You’re Strange] is the antidote to the poison Oliver Stone spewed out 20 years ago". Shows how twisted Ray can be. The antidote to the poison? Seems strange that this antidote follows the same storyboard and went even further than Stone to misrepresent Jim Morrison.
Interesting Ray says "But he didn’t hear what I had to say".
There are a lot of I's in Ray Manzarek.

Q You sound like you really were tight with Jim and have a lot of admiration for him.

A I do, he was a great poet and a great friend. We had a lot of great times together. And you don’t see any of that in the Oliver Stone movie at all.

I would have liked Oliver to have introduced the Jim strangling Ray in a car scene. Maybe he should do that for the 30 years SE DVD.

Q What was is your most fond memory of Jim Morrison?

A Walking on the beach and discussing philosophy and jazz. That’s what we did. We’d sit on Venice Beach and watch the sun set and Jim would say, “it’s morning in Asia.” Then he’d cite a Zen haiku.

Of course he would Ray. Then you both would assume the Lotus position and play finger cymbals until it was time for Dorothy to make you both tofu fajitas and mineral water.

Q In When You’re Strange, they say that Jim made one film at UCLA and he got a D for it.

A It was a poetic collision of images. It was Eisensteinian. There wasn’t any narrative or dialogue. Oliver Stone did a version of it in his movie. He made it seem like it was a Nazi movie when all it was a big German girl doing a hochi cuchi routine on top of a TV and Jim turns on the TV and there are Nazi storm troopers on the TV. It was a terrific image. All that Oliver Stone heard was Nazis and he constructs this whole insane Adolf Hitler thing.

Which according to Jim's class mates was pretty much what Jim's film was. Once again Ray altering History and perception to suit his agenda. #NB Ray Manzarek was not one of Jim's classmates as he was at least a year ahead of him

Q What do you want fans to take from the movie?

A Just to open your own doors of perception and let it wash over you and join the Doors on our quest into the infinite.
Pass the vomit bag.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

"I'm interested in film because, to me, it's the closest
approximation in art that we have to the actual flow of
consciousness.
I think in art, but especially in films, people are trying to confirm
their own existence"
Jim Morrison

Jim Morrison and I met because of his interest in my play The Beard, an erotic succes de scandale, a confrontation between Billy the Kid and Jean Harlow in a blue velvet eternity. It was arranged for us to meet at an Irish bar. We disliked each other at first sight--both with long hair and leather pants--and began sullenly drinking Johnny Walker, which quickly turned to talk about poetry and Elizabethan theater and actors.
Michael McClure On meeting Jim Morrison

"Whoever controls the media, controls the mind."
Jim Morrison

"At school at UCLA I was always interested in film as it seemed to combine my interest indrama, visual arts, music and the profit motive."
Ray Manzarek 1972

[casandra]

Mar 23, 2011 17:50:38 GMT TheWallsScreamedPoetry said:

Q Where did all the great archival footage come from?

A We have it all in a vault at the office. We’re down the hall from the Eagles and they have tons and tons of tape. The footage was shot by Jim and I and one of our buddies from the UCLA Film School, Paul Ferrara, and we’ve had the footage ever since we started shooting it, right after “Light My Fire.” So it’s been sitting there, it just hasn’t been used in quite some while.

This is interesting as I cannot recall reading anywhere that Ray shot any footage from either FOF or HWY. Maybe he was disguised.

Perhaps, he was hidden behind a cactus on Joshua Tree desert, spying on them.

Mar 23, 2011 17:50:38 GMT TheWallsScreamedPoetry said:

Q Did Oliver Stone, during that making of that movie, ever consult any of you guys?

He talked to me, and he talked to John and Robby, sure. But he didn’t hear what I had to say, he had his own vent. He had his own twisted vent he wanted to make and he did, fine. Now this [When You’re Strange] is the antidote to the poison Oliver Stone spewed out 20 years ago.

"Now this [When You’re Strange] is the antidote to the poison Oliver Stone spewed out 20 years ago". Shows how twisted Ray can be. The antidote to the poison? Seems strange that this antidote follows the same storyboard and went even further than Stone to misrepresent Jim Morrison.
Interesting Ray says "But he didn’t hear what I had to say".
There are a lot of I's in Ray Manzarek.

Oliver Stone vs. Ray Manzarek

The guitarist, Robbie Krieger, and the drummer, John Densmore, were good people; they visited the set of The Doors and helped out wherever they could. Ray Manzarek, the keyboard player, was… I don’t even want to say that word. He did everything he possibly could to disrupt things. First he wanted to rewrite everything in the script. Then he wanted to write the script period. Whatever was being done, he wanted things doing differently. It was all I could do to be polite. We would hope that he just wouldn’t turn up because we all knew that if he showed, the whole day would become The Ray Fucking Manzarek Story. In the end I actually had engineer ways of distracting him, trying to keep him away from the damn script. “Look over there, Ray!” Ha ha!

www.sabotagetimes.com/tv-film/oliver-stone-castro-cruise-kilmer-and-me/

Film confers a kind of spurious eternity
Jim Morrison “The Lords”

[kristyob]

Jim made more than one film...all the students did. They always make him seem like such a dilettante.

I recently saw Ray give a talk in San Francisco. The focus was spirituality in music and it was at a psychology school here so I thought 'cool, maybe another viewpoint other than the Morrison myth'.

It was moderated by a very thoughtful journalist guy. You could tell he had done lost of research and probably prepared his questions carefully to focus on the theme. I think he got one question in before Ray literally took over and asked the audience for questions.

Well of course he got the usual "I love the Doors. My dog is named Jim". "what was Jim really like" etc. He did play Light My Fire on the piano in it's entirety which was jazzy and cool but quickly it became all the same stuff.

Seriously ? You spent at least 7 years knowing a guy and you only have a few stories to tell ?!

The talk was ended by him saying 'okay, I've had enough...I'm bone-dry. Thanks for coming. I'll sign autographs but nothing on scrap paper...this isn't a cocktail lounge. It's got to be something Doors related.'

It was as if the journalist dude wasn't even there. He didn't even get a chance to wrap things up!!!

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Mar 24, 2011 19:06:49 GMT kristyob said:

Jim made more than one film...all the students did. They always make him seem like such a dilettante.

DiCillo paints that portrait when he says that the band had to hire Elvis bass player to keep Jim interested in the LAW sessions.
From what I read over the last 30 years Jim was keen as mustard during the LAW sessions once the got rid of Paul and needed no such sop to his ego to get him to the sessions.
And when you read about the early part of 1968 when Jim tried so hard to make COTL work it shows that Jim was no amateur poet and artist but was completely involved in what he did.

As to Ray. I am utterly gobsmacked by the mans utter rudeness and arrogance.
Your journalist seems to have been far too polite.
I would not have been.
I would have listened patiently for a few minutes and then asked Ray if there was any chance he could shut the fuck up and allow us to debate the subject in hand and not waffle on about Jim 'fucking' Morrison.
Either that or wrapped my chair round Ray's head.
It would depend on what type of mood I was in.
The man is a worthless tool and a fuckwit.


I remember listening to a radio show where Ray was due to answer questions on a TV show about the Whisky. He was stuck in traffic and was 40 minutes late getting on the show.
The two radio guys tried to ask Ray a few questions about the show but he would not answer any of their questions. He kept saying you will have to wait to see the show or but my book LMF.
This went on for about 4 minutes and Ray would not answer any questions. They had asked him about Jim at the Whisky and the night he did The End and they got fired. Ray said something like thats in my book and would not answer. So the guys just cut him off and one of them said to the other guy. 'what a dick'
The radio station had it on thier website as something like. Ray Manzarek 'How to be a dick in 4 minutes 32 seconds'
I pissed myself laughing. I still have it somewhere.

How To Be A Dick In 4 minutes 29 with Ray Manzarek
Found it it's brilliant 46:39 mark

Also there is a great piece written by a young lady called Erica called Ray Manzarek Media Whore.
Ray Manzarek: Media Whore by: Erica Zabowski

[darkstar3]

Mar 24, 2011 19:06:49 GMT kristyob said:

Jim made more than one film...all the students did. They always make him seem like such a dilettante.

I recently saw Ray give a talk in San Francisco. The focus was spirituality in music and it was at a psychology school here so I thought 'cool, maybe another viewpoint other than the Morrison myth'.

It was moderated by a very thoughtful journalist guy. You could tell he had done lost of research and probably prepared his questions carefully to focus on the theme. I think he got one question in before Ray literally took over and asked the audience for questions.

Well of course he got the usual "I love the Doors. My dog is named Jim". "what was Jim really like" etc. He did play Light My Fire on the piano in it's entirety which was jazzy and cool but quickly it became all the same stuff.

Seriously ? You spent at least 7 years knowing a guy and you only have a few stories to tell ?!

The talk was ended by him saying 'okay, I've had enough...I'm bone-dry. Thanks for coming. I'll sign autographs but nothing on scrap paper...this isn't a cocktail lounge. It's got to be something Doors related.'

It was as if the journalist dude wasn't even there. He didn't even get a chance to wrap things up!!!

Ray did this Q&A Session in 2000 through the Learning Annex Programs. Of course he charged money for the privilege of listening to his stories. A friend attended one of these sessions and had a tape recorder in her purse. I have copies of the tapes. I haven't listened to them in years. I do recall a story about Jim being dug up and moved to a "military station in the desert."

During the year 2000 and leading up to July 3 2001, Ray was flogging his book and drawing attention to the 30th Anniversary of Jim's death. He told all kinds of wild stories that were absolutely untrue. His fav story was Jim was going to be moved to another location because the lease on the plot was running out (there never was a lease) and when the authorities removed his remains they would find a coffin with sand in it.

If your looking at this Class Schedule for San Diego your probably wondering why are the colors blue and yellow? At the time my printer was running out of ink.

[darkstar3]

Bizarre Magazine
The Doors
When You're Strange
Words: Stephen Daultrey

They've been to heaven and hell, and partied with angels in the ceiling. Bizarre meets acid rock legends Ray Manzarek and Robbie Krieger from The Doors

I once read the David Bowie saw Satan at the bottom of his swimming pool in the ‘70s. Have you ever had any stand-out supernatural experiences?

MANZAREK: Well England is a country of ghosts isn’t it! Paranormal experiences in England, my God! That’s all you have here, this supernatural world surrounding our daily existence. We’re a lot cleaner and fresher in California. It’s all new and clean and pure.

KRIEGER: But you want to hell!

MANZAREK: Oh yeah, that’s true. I was locked out of all the flow of existence. I went to heaven and hell.

How were they?

MANZAREK: Heaven is great. Hell is hellish. Hell is individual. You’re stuck in ‘you’. You cannot enter into the flow and energy of existence, you’re all ego, and the ego will not dissolve. And that’s hell. Heaven is ‘one with all things’. But on the other side is the hellish experience where you’re totally locked out of the energy. And hell isn’t a burning place of fire, it’s a place like Dante’s inferno, where the ninth circle of hell is a devil encased, frozen…the worst thing that you can be is frozen...

KRIEGER: I’d rather be that than burning.

MANZAREK: Well…

KRIEGER: I once saw angels coming out of the ceiling. Do you know what a cottage cheese ceiling is?

I know what cottage cheese is…

KRIEGER: It’s this stuff that’s sprayed onto the ceiling for acoustics. It looks like cottage cheese. I was on acid, when all of a sudden these angels flew out of the cottage cheese. It was pretty cool. There was a whole bunch of them.

MANZAREK: We had Indian bedspreads on the ceiling and all these little figures started moving around them. LOOK AT THEM GOOOOOO!!! Robbie saw angels, but I went to heaven and hell, then I had these little Indian figures running around on the bedspreads up on the ceiling.

Did you write any songs in heaven?

MANZAREK: Oh no, you don’t bother with music. You’re totally transported. All you are is alive. Then you bring all that experience back, that’s what you do. You bring the feeling of infinity back and try to put that in your music.

Your new film When You’re Strange begins with Jim Morrison alive and listening to news of his own death. Do you think he’s really still alive?

MANZAREK: Well he was buried in a sealed coffin in Paris so there are thousands of conspiracy theories. Our manager back then, just a kid who was way out of his depth, went to see if Jim was actually dead, and only saw the sealed coffin in Jim’s apartment. He never asked to see Jim’s body! And that coffin was then buried in Pere Lachaise Cemetery. So who knows, man! Who knows!

Where do you think his body is?

MANZAREK: Either in Pere Lachaise Cemetery or in the Seychelles. I wrote a book 10 years ago called ‘The Poet In Exile’. It’s about a rockstar who fakes his own death in Paris. If you want to read a conspiracy theory about Jim’s death, read this. It may or may not be fiction…

If Jim hadn’t died, and you’d carried on, what would your ‘80s phase have been like?

MANZAREK: Why the ‘80s?

Everyone went funny in the ‘80s.

KRIEGER: I think we would’ve gone into visual arts and videos.

MANZAREK: We could’ve been a punk rock band.

KRIEGER: We already were punk rock.

MANZAREK: That’s true.

Are you best mates with Johnny Depp since he narrated When You're Strange?

MANZAREK: No

KRIEGER: We’ve never met him.

Well he bases his characters on rockstars. Reckon he might emulate you guys next?

MANZAREK: Well I’ve heard that he listens to ‘The End’ as he’s preparing to find his character in various roles.

KRIEGER: He reads Jim’s poetry on the soundtrack. He said ‘I’d love to do that’, so he went out on his boat and spent all night recording. It’s just him reading between the songs, no musical accompaniment.

MANZAREK: We did musical backing to Jim’s poetry on an album called ‘American Prayer’. I highly recommend it as The Doors seventh studio album. There are six studio albums and the ‘lost’ seventh studio name is called an ‘American Prayer’.

KRIEGER: It’s one of my favourites.

I’ll check it out. I haven’t got that one.

MANZAREK: And check out my book. It’s called ‘The Poet In Exile’. Hang on, we’ve done that one. Robbie, tell them about your new album.

KRIEGER: It’s called ‘Singularity’. It’s an instrumental album of jazz, rock and flamenco. It’ll be out here soon.

MANZAREK: And my book’s called ‘The Poet In Exile’.

What’s The Poet doing?

MANZAREK: Writing poetry. Hang on, I’m not going to tell you. You’ve got to read my book.


The superb new The Doors documentary, When You’re Strange, narrated by Johnny Depp and featuring LOTS of new archive footage, is out to own on DVD and Blu-ray now

www.bizarremag.com/entertainment/interviews/10048/the_doors.html

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Just to clarify things.
I don't like Ray Manzarek. Frankly he makes me billious.
It is a supreme injustice that he is walking around spouting his crap whilst Jim Morrison lies in a paupers grave.
As a Musician Ray was a bloody genius. Nowadays he's a parody of himself.

I am of the opinion that Ray Manzarek is to blame for the negative perception of Jim Morrison we see pretty much whenever anything is said about The Doors.

'Pretentious' is a word used often. I don't think Jim was any more pretentious than anyone else in the 60s and 70s.
'Pompous' is another one ditto the above sentence.
Because of this man Jim is laughed at for thinking himself a shaman, a god or some kind of spiritual leader.

But Jim did not think he was any of these things.

Ray Manzarek thought them for him.

The film WYS is the direct result of the Manzarek vision of NOHGOA (which we know now he had a very large hand in) which he has maintained for the last 4 decades.
Oliver Stone is guilty of perpetrating a myth but it was the myth that was born from the twisted imagination of Ray Manzarek.

Relating to Darkstar's post about the evening with Ray Manzarek I do agree that Ray was the driving force of The Doors first 12 months. I believe he deserves that renown.
I am biased but not blind.

The interview section shows what a hog Manzarek was.
Robby can barely get a word in and Manzarek has to better Robby when it comes to LSD visions

Mar 25, 2011 3:41:08 GMT darkstar3 said:

MANZAREK: We had Indian bedspreads on the ceiling and all these little figures started moving around them. LOOK AT THEM GOOOOOO!!! Robbie saw angels, but I went to heaven and hell, then I had these little Indian figures running around on the bedspreads up on the ceiling.

Ray is a deceitful liar and a fantasist.
The guy is a loony!

Mar 25, 2011 3:41:08 GMT darkstar3 said:

MANZAREK: Well he was buried in a sealed coffin in Paris so there are thousands of conspiracy theories. Our manager back then, just a kid who was way out of his depth, went to see if Jim was actually dead, and only saw the sealed coffin in Jim’s apartment. He never asked to see Jim’s body! And that coffin was then buried in Pere Lachaise Cemetery. So who knows, man! Who knows!

Where do you think his body is?

MANZAREK: Either in Pere Lachaise Cemetery or in the Seychelles. I wrote a book 10 years ago called ‘The Poet In Exile’. It’s about a rockstar who fakes his own death in Paris. If you want to read a conspiracy theory about Jim’s death, read this. It may or may not be fiction…

I dunno if I mentioned that Ray is a liar but it's worth mentioning twice all the same. He is also deceitful, greedy and manipulative.
Above we see his greed as he does a sales pitch for his awful novel. His deceit is worse as he sees a chance to spread the Myth about Jim's death, or not! Even today he is still peddling his lies about Morrison. Using the grave as a way to promote both himself and his projects. I was there in Paris when he stood on Jim's grave and sold a concert. I admit I did not see it first hand but still know my statement to be true.
2011 will see him once again take a dump on Jim's grave to go with the many piles of crap he has left in that sad little corner of Pere Lachaise.
Many people, including sadly some Doors fans have desecrated that little corner but NONE with the purpose of Ray Manzarek.

Mar 25, 2011 3:41:08 GMT darkstar3 said:

MANZAREK: We did musical backing to Jim’s poetry on an album called ‘American Prayer’. I highly recommend it as The Doors seventh studio album. There are six studio albums and the ‘lost’ seventh studio name is called an ‘American Prayer’.

KRIEGER: It’s one of my favourites.

I’ll check it out. I haven’t got that one.

MANZAREK: And check out my book. It’s called ‘The Poet In Exile’. Hang on, we’ve done that one. Robbie, tell them about your new album.

he could not resist a final sales pitch. What surprised me most is that Ray even remembered that his pet monkey Krieger was even in the room.

[darkstar3]

May 30 2008
Music Filter On-Line

Manzarek Revs Up Another Round of Jim Morrison Corpse Worship


Every few years, the former keyboardist from The Doors comes out of hiding to announce that A) Jim Morrison was a poet and a shaman, B) Oliver Stone (director of the camp classic movie The Doors) is a charlatan, and C) Oh, by the way, I have a new book/fake Doors reunion tour with a washed up '80s-'90s ringer lead singer/solo album/documentary/line of hippie scarves I'd like you to buy. Let 2008 be no exception to this trend! This time around:

We have plans for a big Doors documentary film in the works," Doors keyboardist Ray Manzarek tells Billboard.com. "I saw the first cut of it yesterday, and it's looking real good. But that won't be out 'til another six months."
Oh, and:


Manzarek is getting ready to hit the road for a European tour in July as part of Riders On The Storm, a group that also features ex-Doors Robbie Krieger (and former Fuel singer Brett Scallions).


musicfilter.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!1E13828BC4057369!18603.entry

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Mar 29, 2011 15:44:42 GMT darkstar3 said:

May 30 2008
Music Filter On-Line

Manzarek Revs Up Another Round of Jim Morrison Corpse Worship


Every few years, the former keyboardist from The Doors comes out of hiding to announce that A) Jim Morrison was a poet and a shaman, B) Oliver Stone (director of the camp classic movie The Doors) is a charlatan, and C) Oh, by the way, I have a new book/fake Doors reunion tour with a washed up '80s-'90s ringer lead singer/solo album/documentary/line of hippie scarves I'd like you to buy. Let 2008 be no exception to this trend! This time around:

We have plans for a big Doors documentary film in the works," Doors keyboardist Ray Manzarek tells Billboard.com. "I saw the first cut of it yesterday, and it's looking real good. But that won't be out 'til another six months."
Oh, and:

Sad part is this could be a news item for any year of the last decade.
Expect similar items to appear near you soon.
People like Ray, and by that I mean......Ray, is the main culprit for the fantasy view of Morrison that is maintained by the mans insane outbursts and opportunistic rambles.
The film When You’re Strange simply a reflection of Manzarek's toilet of a mind. My biggest dissapointment was the way Densmore leapt onto the band wagon and endorsed it.
Probably because it contained his rashes which Jim Morrison caused.

The three of them share the guilt for this narrow view of Jim Morrison but Manzarek is the cause of the more extreme element of the Myth with his constant railling against Jimbo.

Oliver Stone and Jimbo seem to be his biggest fixations in the last decade along with Jim Morrison's knob and fans who don't like his drag act who are condemned as Morrison worshippers.
I suppose when you look at the last 20 odd years it was too much to expect DiCillo to actually make a documentary that reflected balance rather than simply pandered to the 'insane Jim' mantra that colours most of the reporting of The Doors since Stones movie.

It's not as if this kind of balance is not there as a small proportion of what has been written about Morrison and The Doors does focus on the music and the art rather than the sensation.

But sensation sells and DiCillo chose to follow Ray's lead and distort Morrison into some kind of freak who was crazy about being famous rather than someone who tried to be something different and failed.
The art of The Doors speaks volumes for Morrison's efforts but the crazy side always wins because it helps The Doors sell stuff.
I doubt we will ever see a film or documentary about The Doors that looks beyond the spectacle.

[kristyob]

"I doubt we will ever see a film or documentary about The Doors that looks beyond the spectacle."

We will see about this...

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Apr 22, 2011 4:46:32 GMT kristyob said:

"I doubt we will ever see a film or documentary about The Doors that looks beyond the spectacle."

We will see about this...

I dunno how Kristy?
40 years on and STILL all we ever see is the rather twisted Morrison the mental case presented, even by his own mates.
Of course the guy had a bad side. We all do. Of course he was an alcoholic and did shit that was bizarre to say the least. BUT there were other things about him that were worthy of note.
Unfortunately film makers are not really interested in that.
Look at a fool like DiCillo who, coming in with a completely fresh perspective of being pretty much ignorant of The Doors, still produced what for me is the worst pile of bullshit regarding The Doors I have seen or read in the last 40 years.
Where will this more balanced perspective come from Kristy?

[kristyob]

It will come from someone who truly loves the Doors music and has taken the time to figure out the truth.

No doubt NOHGOA has had a profound effect on people in our generation. For me it was the first book that explored the dark side of the psyche (I was 13 when I first read it) but as I got older, that storyline was never enough.... it was more compelling to figure out why I was still attracted to the music and art of an 'asshole'. There just had to be something else to him. To what he was trying to convey. And as we all know there was...

...but beyond his story is an interesting tale of fame, supposedly the pinnacle of achievement in our society, and what it really entails and the effects it has on art. Also the need for myth making, archetypes and hero worship.

It will take someone who is able to look at all these aspects, not just take everything that has been written about him as gospel, blindly.

I'm curious...the fans that want to know the true story, would they be open to an artistic poetic interpretation of Jim's life or would only a straightforward linear story be the best way to go?

What are your thoughts on the presentation Alex ?

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

It will have to come from someone not seeking to make money as the first option. The story of The Doors is not a linear tale as there are dozens of twists and turns to explore.
NOHGOA did indeed affect the psyche of my generation of fans and does so with today’s generation. Some refer to it as Nothing Here But Lies which I think is a tad unfair as there are a lot of truths in there. Same goes for Ray's fun but fatuous LMF book.
Most of the books have some level of truth in there but it's the way they rely heavily on the insane truth that annoys me.
Morrison could be a drunken pain in the ass only a fool would argue against that but he was not always and must have had a lot of good traits or else how could The Doors have such a great volume of History in such a short space of time.
It is difficult as we see here for guys like DiCillo who for me was too weak to actually try to discover something sensational about The Doors and went for the sensation like all the rest. His crime for me was that he invented a Morrison that did not exist as his central character.
By NOT saying certain things when the chance arrived he was able to present a misrepresentation of Morrison as some fame junkie. I have highlighted a couple of moments in the film in this thread that support what I have just said.

Would fans be open to a more realistic but slightly less exciting tale of The Doors. Some would and some would not. Doors fans come in all shapes sizes and interest. I myself did not care a fart for Morrison as a Poet for 30 years even though I have owned L&NC since 1971/72. I was into the other aspects and had my eyes opened by the poetry guys in 2001.
I now see merit in Jim's written poetry that I did not see before.
So you can teach an old dog new tricks if you just make the effort.

Who would present this balanced view and where would they find it?
It would take someone who was a very committed Doors fan. Not a DiCillo type who whilst maybe a fan as he claims was too weak to go against the grain and tell anything but the usual tale.
It's something I and people like me have been blathering on about on the net for over ten years.
The story is there but people just need to look and find it.
A lot of stuff here that portrays Morrison as something different.
Sara has been doing a fantastic job via the calendar which is something that needs to be seen to be believed.
We have a lot of threads and discussion that seek a different tale.
Some fans may think that people like me attack The Doors with things I say but the band has been a part of my life for over 40 years so why would I wish the band harm. I simply seek to see the truth which may hurt the individuals but would never alter my opinion of the band by one iota.
There is a lot to discover still about this band and WYS failed miserably to really seek any real truth.
DiCillo for me ranks among the lowest of those who have tried to tell The Doors story.

Apr 25, 2011 17:20:16 GMT kristyob said:

It will take someone who is able to look at all these aspects, not just take everything that has been written about him as gospel, blindly.

I'm curious...the fans that want to know the true story, would they be open to an artistic poetic interpretation of Jim's life or would only a straightforward linear story be the best way to go?

What are your thoughts on the presentation Alex ?

This hits the nail on the head perfectly.
It will require someone who can look and actually see. That is why WYS managed it's 'three card trick'. A lot of fans saw the images and subliminally blanked out the narrative.
You look at nearly all the reviews by fans and they will say that the image side was brilliant. But very few address the inadequacies of the narrative.
It's not easy as the Myth is not all myth and the truth is not all true. That's what's so interesting about the story. It's corporeal a very human story but with touches of the Immortal with it.
I have been through so many stages during this journey and signed up for so many different versions of the tale.
Even after 40 years I still find stuff to leave me in awe of these 4 guys.
None of them were completely innocent in this drama and as you rightly say taking any of is as 'gospel' is the big mistake.
Question everything about this band even the stuff you know to be true.
Complicated, convoluted and complex an enigma hidden in a riddle wrapped up in a conundrum disguised as a puzzle.
That’s what The Doors have been to me all these decades and that’s why I still enjoy jabbering away about them.