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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Feb 18, 2006 23:49:06 GMT
The Celebration of The Lizard, thoughts on the studio attempt? The Waiting For The Sun songbook from 1969 contained the very interesting Richard Goldstein article 'The Shaman As Superstar' which gave us an insight into the studio version of The Celebration of The Lizard and its downfall.
Ray told Jim it did not work and was too ‘diffuse’ too ‘mangy’ and I wondered if you could expand on that a little JD from the standpoint of the drum-stool and give us an insight into why it never worked.
Was it too complex, was it that you guys did not have the studio technology to do it justice, maybe you guys could just not be arced to bring another Morrison epic to life after The End and WTMO?
Jim originally envisaged this as a theatre piece so would it have been more successful as a stage version than as a record version.....it did achieve some fame as a Doors number live but its sad that apart from the rough studio version that turned up as a bootleg and was later put on that shameful Legacy set COTL has never really had its due renown as one of Jim’s most powerful pieces.
"While Jim squats behind the control panel a roughly recorded dub of his 'Celebration Of The Lizard' comes over the loudspeakers. Gently almost apologetiaclly Ray tells Jim the thing does not work. Too diffuse, too mangy. Jim's face sinks beneath his scaly collar. Right then you can sense 'Celebration Of The Lizard' will never appear on record......certainly not on the new Doors album. There will be eleven driving songs and snatches of poetry read aloud. But no Lizard King. No monarch crowned with lovebeads and holding a phallic sceptre in his hands. 'Hey bring your notebook to my house tomorrow' Rothchild offers. 'Yeah' Jim answers with the look of a dog who's just been told he's missed his walk."
The Shaman as Superstar by Richard Goldstein From The Waiting For The Sun songbook 1969.
On February 19th/20th 1968 The Doors enter the TTG Studios with Bruce Botnick and begin work on what was meant to be the centre piece of their third album the lyric poem 'The Celebration Of The Lizard'. Despite the initial euporia at tackling such a project the cohesiveness of the piece falls apart and is never recovered so the work is eventually dropped and apart from an early demo/rehearsal that was taped nothing satisfactory exists except for the odd live version.
Wonder what that first session was like for the lads....its a pity that it never amounted to the album centrepiece it was supposed to be.......also a shame that the other recorded versions don't seem to exist. The LA Times reported that they had recorded/rehearsed versions varying from 23 to 36 minutes and were expecting it to feature as one whole side of the album and part of the second. Bit like The Doors version of Thick As a brick....... I remember the first time I read 'Shaman As Superstar' which was part of the WFTS songbook back in the early 70s and got a glimpse of what life was like for The Doors in the studio......Jim did not take it well when Ray told him COTL was not gonna work.... "I'm the square of the Western hemisphere" You like people? I hate 'em...screw 'em...I don't need 'em....Oh I need 'em...to grow potatoes"! Would have been interesting if it had worked and had as was envisaged ended up as a stage play with a Doors backing......
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Mar 3, 2006 10:40:12 GMT
TH E D O O R S B E G I N R E C O R D I N G W A I T I N G F O R T H E S U N
Mon. Feb. 19th - Tue. 20th: In The Studio The Doors go into T.T.G. Recording Studios in Hollywood, newly equipped with state of the art 16-track recording capabilities, and begin recordings for their third album Waiting For The Sun. On the first day... "The Celebration of the Lizard" and spontaneity are the order of the day and the band, full of high spirits and diligence, tackles production of this crucial arrangement which is to cover one side of the album. On the 2nd day....... The Doors again concentrate their energies on "The Celebration of the Lizard" and are again pleased with the results. However, the band pays so much attention to the small details and intricacies of the piece they lose the overall cohesiveness and it lacks the smooth transitions from part to part that is essential to the orchestration of the piece. The Doors are dissatisfied with the overall feel, especially the perfectionist Paul Rothchild, and the piece is in jeopardy of making the cut. Jim however is satisfied with the piece but loses the argument to technical aspects. He and the others like the feel but the song does not seem structured strongly enough to make it on a professional record.
Early March: In the studio Producer Paul Rothchild is becoming evermore the perfectionist demanding take after take and the sessions are going awry right from the beginning. Jim is very uninterested in the process of recording and with his constant drinking and partying he is becoming very unreliable and quite creatively unproductive. He has somewhat taken an 'I don't care' attitude and after his masterpiece "The Celebration" is rejected he withdraws and rebels. It takes over 130 attempts to get "The Unknown Soldier" recorded to Paul's high standards. John Densmore gets fed up with everything and quits but returns the next day. Ray and Robby sense that something needs to be done about Jim. They talk to Paul and decide to hire someone to keep an eye on Jim while out drinking to make sure he gets to the studio and to upcoming gigs on time. Paul suggests they hire Bobby Neuwirth, a former roadie with Bob Dylan's band, who can think and drink on a par with Jim, to pose as a film maker. Elektra pays half of Neuwirth's salary and John, Ray and Robby pitch in on the other half. Jim quickly figures out what is going on but plays along for awhile. Neuwirth soon figures out there is no one that can stop Jim from drinking and joins him in bars all over town drinking and partying while giving Jim a companion to talk film with or to relate and bounce ideas off of while they're out and about. He becomes more of a drinking partner than an overseer and coordinator. The recording sessions are getting worse and worse. Jim often keeps the others waiting for hours and hours and blows his chance to get his masterpiece "Celebration of The Lizard" on the record. It was supposed to cover one entire side of the LP but is too disjointed musically and with Jim's attitude in the studio it never comes to fruition. The Doors do make a version Jim likes but the others disagree with him. Upset, he leaves for a few hours returns extremely drunk, lowers the lights and goes into the recording booth completely plastered and sings the take of "Five To One". (If you listen closely to the part at the end of the song where he says: "Hey come on honey...(swig)... go along home and wait for me baby and I'll be there in just a little while..." you can hear him take a swig of his bottle of Brandy.) Jim, feeling the pressures of having to come up with new material, often while in the studio, is drinking more and more. Jim takes off whenever he feels, often frequenting the local taverns, and invites all kinds of party goers and groupies back to the studio. John can't take it anymore and quits again. Robby after a few days talks him into to coming back and on the road with the band. Though the album is nowhere near finished it is time to release a single. "The Unknown Soldier"/ "We Could Be So Good Together" single is released. Many radio stations avoid playing the song due to its war anthem. To promote the single, Elektra produces a short film climaxing with Jim getting shot while bound to a pole on the beach.
From Doors Interactive History
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Post by thebadcowboy on Mar 3, 2006 12:01:28 GMT
where can i get a copy of studio cotl....?
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Post by eressie on Mar 3, 2006 17:26:20 GMT
I would absolutely want to have copy of that too!
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Mar 5, 2006 14:52:21 GMT
Things came to a head during the recording of the third album which Jim had originally wanted to call ‘The Celebration Of The Lizard’ He had intended using one whole side of the album for that poem and as he was in full Lizard King period wanted the sleeve of the album in synthetic snakeskin carrying the title in gold lettering. Ray in his not unusual role of middle man tried to explain that the album was not going to work. He explained that it was too ‘vague’ and too ‘slight’. Jim’s face dropped. He finally got the band to agree that the album would have short extracts of his poetry which he would recite. Jim even went as far as to record the poetry but the whole idea was eventually dropped. The way Jim described the event to a journalist at about the time of the sessions reflects a calm he was probably far from feeling. “I was going to add a bit of poetry in the spaces between the songs. But who wants to listen to a guy who is just talking? It’s the music that counts. That’s what they want to hear. Anyone can talk. But how many guys can play music and sing?” From Stumbling Into Neon
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Post by jym on Mar 5, 2006 17:16:42 GMT
The 2nd choice obviously would have been a groundbreaking experiment & if it would've worked is anybody's guess, it's just too bad that somehow they couldn't have worked out Celebration as a studio work, they obviously kept working on it over the years & in concerts Jim thought it was an important enough piece to offer explanations as to its meaning before starting it.
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Post by sparky on Mar 8, 2006 9:28:18 GMT
ISNT THERE A STUDIO VERSION ON LEGACY- THE ABSOLUTE BEST OF THE DOORS? ?
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Mar 8, 2006 11:10:00 GMT
ISNT THERE A STUDIO VERSION ON LEGACY- THE ABSOLUTE BEST OF THE DOORS? ? Not any more as they have taken it off.....
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Post by sparky on Mar 8, 2006 11:15:43 GMT
WHY THEY DO THAT THEN?? I NEVER BOUGHT THE ALBUM, SO MANY DOORS COMPALATIONS OUT THERE.
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Mar 8, 2006 11:58:24 GMT
Just a guess....they are morons!
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Post by sparky on Mar 8, 2006 12:47:53 GMT
AHHHH I SEE SAYS THE BLIND MAN!!!
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Apr 5, 2006 13:05:40 GMT
It would be interesting to know when the band actually performed the (whole) song live for the first time......it was played during the Fillmore East shows of March 22/23 1968 but its not likely the whole piece was performed. Mike Jahn says of it in his book which highlights these gigs... "with one eye on the audience and one on his books of Indian lore Morrison is beginning to sing his long in preperation COTL....The Lizard takes nearly a half hour in concert and The Doors have no intention of attempting it all....though its reputation has spread through the underground. They did it in San Diego and the audience was speechless." He goes on to mention the band cut it short and go into LMF. The San Diego reference most likely refers to the bands gig at the Community Hall in November 67 and was likely another shortened preview of the piece as they had not (as far as we know) refined it by that time into what it would become. The likely candidate is The Kaleidescope in LA (later The Aquarius) on April 11th which was a benefit for striking KPPC/KMPX radio staff in California which received a lot of support from the artistic community at the time.
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Jan 22, 2011 15:12:14 GMT
On February 19th/20th 1968 The Doors enter the TTG Studios with Bruce Botnick and begin work on what was meant to be the centre piece of their third album the lyric poem 'The Celebration Of The Lizard'. Despite the initial euporia at tackling such a project the cohesiveness of the piece falls apart and is never recovered so the work is eventually dropped and apart from an early demo/rehearsal that was taped nothing satisfactory exists except for the odd live version.
Wonder what that first session was like for the lads....its a pity that it never amounted to the album centrepiece it was supposed to be.......also a shame that the other recorded versions don't seem to exist. The LA Times reported that they had recorded/rehearsed versions varying from 23 to 36 minutes and were expecting it to feature as one whole side of the album and part of the second. Bit like The Doors version of Thick As a brick.......
I remember the first time I read 'Shaman As Superstar' which was part of the WFTS songbook back in the early 70s and got a glimpse of what life was like for The Doors in the studio......Jim did not take it well when Ray told him COTL was not gonna work.... "I'm the square of the Western hemisphere" You like people? I hate 'em...screw 'em...I don't need 'em....Oh I need 'em...to grow potatoes"! Would have been interesting if it had worked and had as was envisaged ended up as a stage play with a Doors backing....
TH E D O O R S B E G I N R E C O R D I N G W A I T I N G F O R T H E S U N Mon. Feb. 19th - Tue. 20th: In The Studio The Doors go into T.T.G. Recording Studios in Hollywood, newly equipped with state of the art 16-track recording capabilities, and begin recordings for their third album Waiting For The Sun. On the first day... "The Celebration of the Lizard" and spontaneity are the order of the day and the band, full of high spirits and diligence, tackles production of this crucial arrangement which is to cover one side of the album.
On the 2nd day....... The Doors again concentrate their energies on "The Celebration of the Lizard" and are again pleased with the results. However, the band pays so much attention to the small details and intricacies of the piece they lose the overall cohesiveness and it lacks the smooth transitions from part to part that is essential to the orchestration of the piece. The Doors are dissatisfied with the overall feel, especially the perfectionist Paul Rothchild, and the piece is in jeopardy of making the cut. Jim however is satisfied with the piece but loses the argument to technical aspects. He and the others like the feel but the song does not seem structured strongly enough to make it on a professional record.
Early March: In the studio Producer Paul Rothchild is becoming evermore the perfectionist demanding take after take and the sessions are going awry right from the beginning. Jim is very uninterested in the process of recording and with his constant drinking and partying he is becoming very unreliable and quite creatively unproductive. He has somewhat taken an 'I don't care' attitude and after his masterpiece "The Celebration" is rejected he withdraws and rebels. It takes over 130 attempts to get "The Unknown Soldier" recorded to Paul's high standards. John Densmore gets fed up with everything and quits but returns the next day. Ray and Robby sense that something needs to be done about Jim. They talk to Paul and decide to hire someone to keep an eye on Jim while out drinking to make sure he gets to the studio and to upcoming gigs on time. Paul suggests they hire Bobby Neuwirth, a former roadie with Bob Dylan's band, who can think and drink on a par with Jim, to pose as a film maker. Elektra pays half of Neuwirth's salary and John, Ray and Robby pitch in on the other half. Jim quickly figures out what is going on but plays along for awhile. Neuwirth soon figures out there is no one that can stop Jim from drinking and joins him in bars all over town drinking and partying while giving Jim a companion to talk film with or to relate and bounce ideas off of while they're out and about. He becomes more of a drinking partner than an overseer and coordinator. The recording sessions are getting worse and worse. Jim often keeps the others waiting for hours and hours and blows his chance to get his masterpiece "Celebration of The Lizard" on the record. It was supposed to cover one entire side of the LP but is too disjointed musically and with Jim's attitude in the studio it never comes to fruition. The Doors do make a version Jim likes but the others disagree with him. Upset, he leaves for a few hours returns extremely drunk, lowers the lights and goes into the recording booth completely plastered and sings the take of "Five To One". (If you listen closely to the part at the end of the song where he says: "Hey come on honey...(swig)... go along home and wait for me baby and I'll be there in just a little while..." you can hear him take a swig of his bottle of Brandy.) Jim, feeling the pressures of having to come up with new material, often while in the studio, is drinking more and more. Jim takes off whenever he feels, often frequenting the local taverns, and invites all kinds of party goers and groupies back to the studio. John can't take it anymore and quits again. Robby after a few days talks him into to coming back and on the road with the band. Though the album is nowhere near finished it is time to release a single. "The Unknown Soldier"/ "We Could Be So Good Together" single is released. Many radio stations avoid playing the song due to its war anthem. To promote the single, Elektra produces a short film climaxing with Jim getting shot while bound to a pole on the beach. From Doors Interactive History
It is possibly during this time that Densmore misses a weekend of Doors gigs and is replaced by a local drummer for several concerts. Before coming back to the fold.
Things came to a head during the recording of the third album which Jim had originally wanted to call ‘The Celebration Of The Lizard’ He had intended using one whole side of the album for that poem and as he was in full Lizard King period wanted the sleeve of the album in synthetic snakeskin carrying the title in gold lettering. Ray in his not unusual role of middle man tried to explain that the album was not going to work. He explained that it was too ‘vague’ and too ‘slight’. Jim’s face dropped. He finally got the band to agree that the album would have short extracts of his poetry which he would recite. Jim even went as far as to record the poetry but the whole idea was eventually dropped. The way Jim described the event to a journalist at about the time of the sessions reflects a calm he was probably far from feeling. “I was going to add a bit of poetry in the spaces between the songs. But who wants to listen to a guy who is just talking? It’s the music that counts. That’s what they want to hear. Anyone can talk. But how many guys can play music and sing?” From Stumbling Into Neon
It would be interesting to know when the band actually performed the (whole) song live for the first time......it was played during the Fillmore East shows of March 22/23 1968 but its not likely the whole piece was performed. Mike Jahn says of it in his book which highlights these gigs... "with one eye on the audience and one on his books of Indian lore Morrison is beginning to sing his long in preperation COTL....The Lizard takes nearly a half hour in concert and The Doors have no intention of attempting it all....though its reputation has spread through the underground. They did it in San Diego and the audience was speechless." He goes on to mention the band cut it short and go into LMF. The San Diego reference most likely refers to the bands gig at the Community Hall in November 67 and was likely another shortened preview of the piece as they had not (as far as we know) refined it by that time into what it would become. The likely candidate is The Kaleidescope in LA (later The Aquarius) on April 11th which was a benefit for striking KPPC/KMPX radio staff in California which received a lot of support from the artistic community at the time.
"with one eye on the audience and one on his books of Indian lore Morrison is beginning to sing his long in preperation COTL....The Lizard takes nearly a half hour in concert and The Doors have no intention of attempting it all....though its reputation has spread through the underground. They did it in San Diego and the audience was speechless." Mike Jahn Jim Morrison & The Doors
I wonder if one of those poetry snippets he recorded is the intro to Soft Parade that is on the new box set?
I am troubled immensely by your eyes, I am struk by the feather of your soft reply, The sound of glass speaks quick distain, And conceals what your eyes fight to explain
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Jan 22, 2011 17:02:33 GMT
COTL was recorded in a version of 23 minutes and 36 minutes according to the LA Times in March 1968. We heard a 17 minute version as a bootleg which was released by The Doors and deceitfully dressed up as a take from thier archive. So as yet no official version has been released so it's not known if a version of COTL exists in the band archive. I think that it could have worked if the will had been there. It worked OK on stage so they must have had enough desire to knock it into shape for concerts.....so why not an album?
Ray said this in 1997. "Celebration of the Lizard. We never did get that great studio take. But we played the hell out of it live! Studio life: focusing on the music. You're in the studio to make music. Partying, you can do anywhere. I think bands that party too much in the studio are ridiculous."
Which is a fair point! And one obviously directed at Morrison again. Let's hope this thread moves the debate on a bit and we get a lot more views from members here.
"While Jim squats behind the control panel a roughly recorded dub of his 'Celebration Of The Lizard' comes over the loudspeakers. Gently almost apologetiaclly Ray tells Jim the thing does not work. Too diffuse, too mangy. Jim's face sinks beneath his scaly collar. Right then you can sense 'Celebration Of The Lizard' will never appear on record......certainly not on the new Doors album. There will be eleven driving songs and snatches of poetry read aloud. But no Lizard King. No monarch crowned with lovebeads and holding a phallic sceptre in his hands. 'Hey bring your notebook to my house tomorrow' Rothchild offers. 'Yeah' Jim answers with the look of a dog who's just been told he's missed his walk. ‘Sure’. Defeated the Lizard King seeks refuge within his scales. He disappears for ten minutes and returns with a bottle of brandy. Thus fortified he closets himself inside an anteroom used to record isolated vocal. He turns the lights out fit’s himself with earphones and begins his game. ‘Five to one, one in five, nobody here gets out alive’. Everyone in the room tries to bury Jim’s presence in conversation but his voice intrudes bigger and blacker over the loudspeaker. Suddenly he emerges from his Formica cell inflicting his back upon a wall as though he were being impaled. He is sweat drunk but still coherent and he mutters so everyone can hear. ‘If I had an axe …..man I’d kill everybody….xept…uh ….my friends"
"I'm the square of the Western hemisphere" You like people? I hate 'em...screw 'em...I don't need 'em....Oh I need 'em...to grow potatoes"! The Shaman as Superstar by Richard Goldstein From The Waiting For The Sun songbook 1969.
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gizmo
Door Half Open
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Post by gizmo on Feb 5, 2011 12:55:46 GMT
i think the reason why cotl is never done on a record is that it´s missing the magic they had created on stage with that masterpiece. the version on absolutely live is 100 times better than the one on legacy. with the live version you can cet a piece of the magic at that time while the sudioversion is a cheap plastic rip off. i think the song is a mix of poetry jim used in different songs to start new songs)as on the absolutely live cd all different poems are numbered as different songs. i think cotl still was a work in progress wich needed more time to put it on a record to get it the way they wanted it. they only problem was that a few(not calling names*lol*) didn't want to invest time on cotl while recording a few different songs(wich are made easier) have a greater chance of scoring a new hit. like i said, i love the live version and think the version on the legacy album isn't what i've expected. i expected a version wich was better than the live version but they came up with a version wich is nothing like they were capable of. i'm missing the darknes of the end(studio) and it almost seems like the legacy version is missing the soul of them all. like they were doing it from sheet music instead of the great improvisation they have on stage.
i (almost)thought it was a waste of space on the cd, but on the other hand, who would have bought legacy if it was the so manniest best of album?
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Feb 5, 2011 13:28:37 GMT
I agree that the Abso;utely Live version was the best but let's not forget that was a fake version compiled by Paul Rothchild out of the 1969/70 concert tapes. We have the real version on the Bright Midnight stuff which is not as good as the fake version. The Doors Legacy version was a pack of lies as that version is not from their archive as they claimed but from the bootleg version that was apparently recorded on a tape deck using a TV amplifier to boost the sound. The LA Times mention several other version which have never been heard and if The Doors have one then we have not seen it released yet as they simply lied and used the bootleg version for Legacy. Which makes them a bunch of lying crooks in my eyes I am afraid as they conned a lot of people using the COTL on Legacy. I already had a copy of the bootleg so I did not buy from those liars.
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gizmo
Door Half Open
Posts: 113
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Post by gizmo on Feb 5, 2011 13:42:46 GMT
i did know that the version on absolutely live was mixed, but i have to day that it's a great job and you can't hear that it is from different tapes(no cuttingsounds and a constant sound from the audience) i downloaded the legacy version on the net and the first time i heard it, i was dissapointed.was that the track where we should buy a new cd for? i think i can do a better job in my 16 track studio than they did on legacy.
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Feb 8, 2011 17:01:11 GMT
'They' didn't do anything mate. All 'They' did was nick the copy that the bootleggers made and passed it off as something from the Doors archive. In other words lied about it.
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Post by zaval80 on Apr 2, 2024 21:50:22 GMT
The "studio COTL" that we have seems to be a demo version. Bruce Botnick had said so around the time of "Perception", either in person to a very prominent Doors collector or during a promo interview. He mentioned that it was recorded at the end of 1967 (Nov-Dec) and that some other songs were also taped. It looks like this has been done at the "I.D. Sound Recorders" studio - the former Liberty studio, where Bruce had worked. It is known that it was Bruce who was responsible - no Paul on this demo session.
Later, Bruce stated that this demo was recorded between the SD and WFTS sessions. This quote can be found in Shindig (2017). IMO this version is more credible; I just can't see the COTL demo recorded at Nov-Dec. 1967. But first things first.
When did WFTS sessions happen? The first exact mention was done by Doug Lubahn in his book: 9.01.1968 to 28.03.1968, but not on the daily basis. IMO this means that Doug had been employed during this period of time, and any other sessions proceeded without him. So we can assume that the basic tracks and the main vocals were finished on 28.03.
Then, we've learned the date of the working mix of the album - 18.04.1968 (WFTS 50th Anni. edition).
Now, we have Vince Treanor's book. This great source is somehow alternating between things witnessed by Vince first-hand, and things Vince or his helpers (?) gleaned from other accounts. Like, Vince acknowledges the "1967 demo". If it is from 1967, then it hasn't been possible for Vince to witness it. Any studio things he witnessed must be since the beginning of 1968.
Vince says that the first session was on 14.01.1968 (Sunset). Everything before it was rehearsals. (BTW, Lubahn describes rehearsals as taking places in the Doors office, as early as October 1967 - but there was no Doors office that early. It could be he talks about the rehearsals for the single - The Unknown Soldier - those are quite possible for Oct. 1967; as for the album stuff, it depends on what exactly the band had by that moment.)
Vince says the 14.01.1968 session was for COTL; at least they did some run-through for Paul. Unfortunately, what Vince says is not formulated with some exactness. Later, I'll give specific examples of this.
BTW 14.01.1968 was Sunday and it's hard to imagine the pressing need for The Doors to have a session on a Sunday. But the session on 3.3.1968 which gave us Easy Ride had been also on Sunday, so there's some strange anomaly with this.
So it could be understood that Paul did not like the state of COTL and the next session, 15.01.1968, was devoted to Spanish Caravan. It had been described by Joan Didion and the mention of the upcoming West Covina shows is crucial. Also, that the band planned to rehearse in West Covina.
Recently, there were documents published on the Mild Equator site showing the intention of Bruce to record The Doors live on the West Covina date. What is unclear - the purpose. Wasn't it too early for a live album? Or, did the Elektra brass know that The Doors have problems with material for the new album - this early? It seems that Jac Holzman did not press the band and Paul for the studio sessions before the start of 1968, as the band had a quite solid live schedule.
So, the West Covina dates come and go - no recording, no COTL performed. Obviously COTL wasn't anywhere near ready. (Even for a demo, I would add.)
Then the band rehearses and probably records something else at Sunset. We know that Spanish Caravan and Summer's Almost Gone were used for the purposes of the 18.04.1968 working mix as the Sunset recordings. But, Vince says there were some further Sunset sessions - after the start of the TTG ones, that is. (If SAG comes from one such session, this would mean The Doors had no intention from the very start to record it. We just don't know.)
Then there were various events - Morrison arrested in Las Vegas, Adam Holzman's birthday, The Doors concert on 10.02.1968 (Berkeley) and 17.02.1968 (Phoenix). After these, the TTG sessions - since 19.02.1968.
It's hard to make a unified impression between what is said about the COTL sessions on 19-20.02.1968 in "On The Road" and in Treanor's book. But Vince reports the important thing: on 19.02. the band played the whole COTL, and on 20.02 Paul started recording it in sections. Then he made a composite of the best takes of these sections, and his verdict was, the piece is too much, but NTTTE is what was needed. Then on 28.02.1968 the NTTTE sessions start.
(One thing that "On The Road" and Treanor's book have in common re: 19-20.02. TTG sessions - that Paul wasn't present on the 19.02. one - hint, hint...nudge, nudge... In theory, it could be the demo was recorded on 19.02.1968. But, the tape of this COTL demo does not seem to be from TTG. I.D. Sound seems to be the proper location for COTL demo.)
Big questions are: 1) what was the need for the demo? 2) what about the March session for COTL, and how come COTL became 36 mins from 24 min long?
One thing I haven't mentioned so far - somehow, Vince states all the times in his book that COTL was intended as one side of the album with Jim's poems on another side. There is not a single mention of a Doors LP with some Doors songs on the other side.
---------- Now all the things are IMO.
1) IMO the demo was not for the band and not for Paul, but strictly for the top brass. IMO Jac Holzman heard it, did not like it (who would?), and told Paul that, would Jim and the band be able to come up with a decent COTL during the very first TTG sessions, to proceed, and if not, to halt the COTL immediately as the Doors album piece. But, it wouldn't be good to offend Jim Morrison with straight-out rejection. And this is why IMO there were talks of an album with COTL and Jim's poems - as a backing plan. Such an album would be Jim's. So IMO that was some diplomatic solution by Jac.
2) We don't know anything for sure about the March session. The demo of COTL is 17 min, and it's next to impossible to imagine a version (or a need) for a 36-min version. Either the reporter got something wrong (there were similar reports of "rock gigantism" on the Beach Boy's "Heroes & Villains" in 1967, at the very least), or Jim Morrison experimented with his work past its "Doors deadline" of 20.02.1968, probably with the purpose of showcasing his poetry. When all he needed to do was to develop a piece close to his demo (which differs from the printed version only regarding the ending and some bits within NTTTE).
As for when the COTL demo was recorded - IMO this happened some time after 10.02.1968 (Berkeley show), but the explanation requires another long post. I should mention here just one thing - that such a notion, COTL demo in the time period 11-19.02.1968, satisfies Bruce's quote of demo having been recorded before the WFTS sessions. Technically the sessions have started on 9.01.1968 or 14.01.1968 at Sunset, but IMO the participants do not keep the Sunset sessions (those before 19.02.1968) in high regard; it was quite often that they said that the WFTS sessions started at TTG. So there are different angles from which one can look at Botnick's words (BTW, he's the guy who stated that Jim had sung all (LOL) 24 songs he'd written (LOL) to Ray on that fateful 1965 beach meeting, and that it had been Jim who told him so, and that Ray confirmed.)
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Post by zaval80 on Apr 3, 2024 19:13:39 GMT
The next part is - why IMO the demo was recorded 11-19.02.1968 and not Nov-Dec 1967.
Because the material wasn't there! We've got 2 drafts of COTL, partially in Jim's 2021 book, and more fully in the "pricey & stupid" 2022 book. There is an earlier draft which is incomplete, and the later complete one. For the sake of space these are draft 1 and draft 2. In "The American Night' book it is said that Jim rewrote COTL dozens of times or so. Could well be. The final page of the final manuscript is in Frank's very first book, and there was a low quality pic on the Web indicating another draft, looking differently.
Draft 1 is rambling. Draft 2 is better - also rambling (what with Jim including the WHOLE of the 1965 prototype from the "Green Songbook", also "Bird of Prey" and "Ensenada"), but after he took out the obvious fodder, it's quite close to the final version.
And the demo - resembles Draft 2 quite closely. What it lacks is any kind of a good ending. Notably, it has the "Dead President" verse which is not anywhere in Drafts 1 and 2, and the chorus "Run with me...Let's run". So it could be said that Draft 2 precedes the demo. All he needed to do was to develop a suitable ending and to pay a bit more attention to NTTTE.
Now to the dating. Stephen Davis in his book makes a connection between the Berkeley show (10.02.1968) and "The mansion is warm..." verse. That verse was reported by January Jansen in Frank's 1991 book - that it was inspired by the Hearst mansion during the car ride of Jim, January, Paul Ferrara and Babe Hill from SF to LA. There was no date in Frank's book, so Davis must have made some research, or got additional info from some participant. What's important - there are possibilities for such car ride in 1967, but Babe wasn't in "Jim's sphere" back then. In fact, Babe says he became matey with Jim after the Phienix show (17.02.1968) - in Frank's 2015 book. Babe did not say anything about that car ride. I saw somewhere that Babe was the driver, so it can be supposed that he was on that ride as Paul's friend. Paul has some interesting bits in his 2006 memoir, but nothing about the verse.
Obviously, there is no guarantee that Jim thought up that verse on the 11.02. ride - he could have spoken something he came up with earlier. But there is a hugely important detail in Draft 1 - that verse is written up in the top margin. And Jim never started a page with writing in the top margin. It definitely looks like this verse was added to Draft 1. Also, it was written in the margin completely, indicating it was something new - unlike the "snake well" verse, depicted by just these two words - indicating that Jim knew that "snake well" verse by heart when he wrote draft 1.
Another important thing about that car ride where Jim had to work on his poetry while on the ride - he asked to stop at the telephone booths on the way and read his poetry to Pam. Friends laughed, thinking he was pussy-whipped, but in reality Pam must have got a very precise idea of some deadline for the work of her hubby, and of the importance of that work and the deadline.
(BTW the Berkeley show on 10.02.1968 was the place where Jim gave a COTL reading for the first time. So it's obvious that COTL was hugely on his mind on the car ride, and not some other piece.)
So IMO if that verse was thought up during the car ride, 11.02.1968 - then Jim got tired with his Draft 1 and started Draft 2. At some later moment he added up another verse (President-Czar) and the chorus. But the ending was still undeveloped. So it could be he recorded what he got for the demo in the 12.02-19.02 window, so the top brass would have a clue what the "COTL" album would sound like - with the understanding he'll do something about the COTL ending.
If this chronology is right, then the Doors guys just had no time to develop a good-sounding music in just a few days before the TTG sessions. Like, Robby plays something on the demo he'd play in his sleep - just like on "Paris Blues", "Rock Is Dead", etc. The good-sounding NTTTE is Paul Rothchild's achievement. (He's the guy who bent Robby's guitar arm and Ray's organ pedal in rhythm to get the right sound.) And we don't know anything about them rehearsing COTL. Like, they could have wasted time, working on Jim's earlier designs. But, if Jim presented them with finished COTL earlier, chances are his colleagues would have the whole thing down.
In both Drafts 1 and 2, Jim relies hugely on the poems ultmately unused - "Power" and "A Vast Radiant Beach". The first one was to imply some negative forces attacking the "sleepy town" from the outside, and the second one was to signify positivity. He just did not know how to arrange his poetical ideas properly, and it could be that the March version of 36 minutes used them, or even the 1965 prototype with "Bird of Prey" and "Ensenada", or something else. But that was not workable.
One thing which is not evident from drafts 1 and 2 - they look like some radio play with different voices and sound effects, but at no time they look like Jim described COTL at the Felt Forum and in interviews ("guys in the desert, sing songs by the fire, perhaps they dance"). The only such bit looking like it is "We Came Down...". About everything else looks like from "Lizard King" in his different eras/guises. So maybe Jim rationalized his thoughts about the piece like that at a later date, but what he aimed at, as supported by Drafts 1 and 2, is a "Lizard King" story with some happy ending.
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