Jim Morrison: Worth as a Poet?

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

One of the aspects we have not touched on here is whether or not Jim Morrison was ACTUALLY any good at writing poetry.
Not the best judge of poetry myself and thought for 30 years his written poetry was dull and boring whereas his spoken stuff was incredible.
But have finally come to the conclusion that Jim was indeed a decent poet who given time could well have become a great poet.
He was working on stuff in Paris which included a screenplay and new poetry as well as his trial document so he was more interested in writing than singing.
If he had lived who knows what he might have produced......so the question for you is was he actually any good at his chosen proffesion of American Poet or was he just a wannabe whose ambitions far
out-stripped his mediocre talents.....

[nick]

He WAS an Incredible poet, but one that could have been even more incredible with discipline…
or not so much even discipline, in terms of, say, a more formulaic writing style, but his drinking and touring detracted from the time he could have spent furthering himself as a poet. He would have gotten better had he lived. I wonder how much of what’s been published he would have even cared to be seen. There’s different approaches to writing a poem. You have those that once they write something, they’re pretty much thru with it. Maybe they edit- maybe they combine- maybe not…. Personally I’d rather just WRITE and it it’s bullshit… so what… write ten more! And you have those that compose more bard-like, or epic style, poetry… A poem like The Wasteland or Howl fall into that category- even Dylan’s Desolation Row…. A poem like An American Prayer would be a Morrison equivalent (but it was more broken in style?) While maybe he was one to edit and combine and the effect that sometimes he may have been going for was more along the lines of collage… Nevertheless you can see there, by looking at his poetry and him as a person, that he had the potential for even greater heights. It’s maybe harder to appreciate poetry off the page but I think for those that can, it’s just as stimulating as hearing it spoken. I’d rather myself pick up one of his books than hear American Prayer for the 200th time… MORE MEAT… like straight whiskey… but not… or as instant… you gotta be Into it….
You can at least tell with Jim that he was attempting something outside the range of the ordinary. Versus a lot of poetry that seems like a story broken down up into shorter lines or just so much the same as so much other stuff you read that, even tho that person maybe has talent, they bore you. I read once where Gary Snyder commented that if one plans on being a poet, they should read as much poetry as possible… so they’re not creating more wheels…. With Morrison- he was someone that was well read enough he wasn’t going to sit down and emulate and therefore was more on his own and- therefore also- maybe one that needed more time to reach his true potential, tho what he did write Is important, often brilliant, poetry.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

You make some good points Nick...
I can't say i agree that he was an incredible poet although he did write some incredible poetry... ;D
He was surely an exceptional human being and its my belief that if he had made it back from Paris he may well have realised his dream and written the 'great Amercian' novel he wished for.....
There would have been little in the way of music from him but screenplays, poetry and other literary efforts I have no doubt....

[nick]

Reckon you’re right, or more on that mark.... In one sense it IS hard to say he’s an incredible poet- or go as far as making the type of comments McClure made about Jim's being the generation’s poet and personifying the generation gap.
Then again there’s that dichotomy because a lot of what he did write was so exceptional; and another dichotomy atop that one that at the same time he was a lyricist and performer, as well as there being the spoken word poetry of his on the market. Had he lived there would have been something even better out there of his in terms of any books of poetry or a cd of his spoken word poetry. Perhaps it wouldn’t have sold as well tho. I could see where one could read a book of his like Wilderness and, not knowing him as Jim Morrison- legendary rock ’n roll singer- MYTH, but also maybe understanding him better as a poet- be left with a somewhat dissatisfied feeling . Then again there’s enough in their of brilliance to redeem the poems that seem like 18-25-word-fluff or jottings. Ah… tis just a hard thing to figure with him. He simply needed more time to reap the full fruits of his talent- but he’s left behind a pretty damn immense influence too.
D’ja really think he was ready for a Great American Novel- something of that length and caliber? Not that he didn’t have it in him, he would have had some unique perspectives to offer and maybe by Paris he had matured enough as a person to add the dimensions needed for something like that. Had he slowed down on the drinking a bit, maybe he could have found a greater joy and satisfaction there in creation… which is a potentially orgasmic thing in itself. I think Morrison needed a bit of change in conscious himself. He went there with good intentions, which are easy enough to come by, but he needed to learn to stop trying to escape so much. Anyway, it was his life and he would have went on to get things under better control, given time- to each their own pace…<br>
Ah but… I wished he had wrote that novel.
That more-so than a book of poetry, could have shaken the rock star image and maybe turned his life around toward a more longsatisfyin’, literary groove.

[jym]

I think Jim had remarkable potential to be a great poet. Reading his poems (& I haven't done it in a while) are some very good poems & some that show some great flashes of what could've been.

Poets are rarely great young I think it takes the seasoning experience of life & time to build up the great, even great poets have bad, mediocre & above average poems, its just getting people to remember the great rather than the poor rhyming ones.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

He talked about writing a novel Nick and I am sure if he had been given time it is a road he would have gone down.....he had ambitions in film as well so perhaps he would have explored directing and screenwriting first but I do honestly believe he would have wanted to emulate his literary heroes and the call of a great American novel would have been too tempting....
As you say he left us a tantalising glimpse into what he was capable of....some of it pompous, some of it childish scrawl but some of it very deep and perceptive.
I took a long time to finally 'get' Jim Morrison the poet but I see enough in his work to speculate that he would have one day written something really important....

[jym]

I've been thinking this over, no matter what his shortcomings as a poet, I think An American Prayer should be regarded as one of the best poems of its era.

[ensenada]

i do love a lot of jim's poetry. I love the way he mingles some of it with strange fantasy type experiences. I love the way he uses words. I am no poet critic. I dont feel his poetry was amazing, but i do think a more maturer Jim may have produced even better, superb poetry. he had it in him.
but like I mentioned somewhere else, most of the doors songs came from jim's poetry. they make superb songs with lyrics that DO make you think "what the fucks al that about?" and "what an insight!".
so if lyrics are closely related to poetry, then he fuckin rocked as a poet!

[wyldlizardqueen]

Ensenada said:

i do love a lot of jim's poetry. I love the way he mingles some of it with strange fantasy type experiences. I love the way he uses words. I am no poet critic. I dont feel his poetry was amazing, but i do think a more maturer Jim may have produced even better, superb poetry. he had it in him.
but like I mentioned somewhere else, most of the doors songs came from jim's poetry. they make superb songs with lyrics that DO make you think "what the fucks al that about?" and "what an insight!".
so if lyrics are closely related to poetry, then he fuckin rocked as a poet!

I second that, i couldn"t have said it better my self:) Robyn

[ftw]

i love jim poety, its full with beauty
and he taught me about freedom

all poety is beautiful cause it comes from the soul

[wyldlizardqueen]

FTW said:

i love jim poety, its full with beauty
and he taught me about freedom

all poety is beautiful cause it comes from the soul

Yeah, Poetry...i love it all, its beautiful and it does come from ur heart and soul:)

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

He famously threw away his notebooks whilst living on Dennis Jacobs roof and I wonder if afterwards he began to realise that he did in fact have potential as a writer.
'If I had not thrown away those notebooks I never would have been free' he once said......
perhaps that was the catalyst he needed to begin to take himself seriously as a writer.......
Would he have acheived any note as a poet if not for The Doors? He knew that himself and once said at a poetry bash in San Francisco he had been asked to attend....'look at these guys! They have so much talent but nobody knows who they are.' He knew he was invited for his being a Door and not for being a writer. it must have been frustrating as without Jim the star Jim the poet would be doomed to obscurity.
For a rock star out for a good time it would not have been a problem but for an artist like Morrison it must have been really annoying......no wonder he grew to hate the very thing that made him famous......
Even to this day we fans do not understand the battle that must have went on inside Jim Morrison....we love the music and we notice the poetry because of that music....even his so called 'friends' like Ray Manzarek only saw as far as the fame and the meal ticket that was the lead singer..... Ray may 'champion' Jim's poetry today but with him its a 'hustle' not any deeply held principle.....Only Frank Lisciandro has ever really done Jim the Poet justice as all the rest of us just see Jim the singer/superstar.
Took me 30 years to actually think about the poet and I am just beginning to understand a little about that 'guy'.....
I wonder how many who were handed 'Ode To LA' at the Aquarius gig even bothered to read the words that the centre of thier attention thought so important he printed it out at his own expense and had handed out to them......
To many (including his band and record company) Jim was a way to ensure a comfortable lifestyle for themselves but to Morrison himself he was an artist unsurpassed by any before or afterwards.....
For all his faults he held true to his beliefs and never once compromised his art.......whilst he lived very few ever gave him his just due.....
Makes you think!

[jym]

Jim knew what he was doing. He knew how poets live & that very few make a living writing Ferlinghetti owned (owns) the City Lights Bookstore, not sure what McClure was doing for money in the 60's, Corso was a mailman, Allen Ginsburg may have been the only beat making a living & he was lecturing & being cheeleader for the rest of the beats.

My point is Morrison COULD have had he chosen to lived in somewhat obscurity & been a poet, but he picked a route that rocketed him to fame (although risky) had The Doors not panned out maybe he then would have had to be more the poet.

[lawless]

I would say that Jim's fame as a rock star actually worked against there being a fair reception of his poetry.
The rock press in particular slammed his poetry out of sheer prejudice and ignorance.

Rock critics seemed to be saying, "we are the writers, not you Jim; you are a Rock star - how dare you publish a book of poems"!

I must say that I respect the opinion of another poet on Jim's work more than I do that of a music critic - what did Zappa say, 'the rock press is written by people who can't write for people who can't read' or something similar.

So when Michael McClure claims that Jim was a great poet, I tend to believe him.

And the stuff stands up today [Lords/New Creatures/American Prayer/Ode to LA/Readings etc.,]

What really needs to be done is a Complete Edition of his writing, properly edited, annotated and indexed by someone who knows what they are doing.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Some related threads here on the board

McClure On Morrison
newdoorstalk.proboards43.com/index.cgi?board=poet&action=display&thread=1109868360

American Prayer
newdoorstalk.proboards43.com/index.cgi?board=poet&action=display&thread=1107717629

Wilderness
newdoorstalk.proboards43.com/index.cgi?board=poet&action=display&thread=1107865882

American Poet
newdoorstalk.proboards43.com/index.cgi?board=poet&action=display&thread=1107715066

Lords & New Creatures
newdoorstalk.proboards43.com/index.cgi?board=poet&action=display&thread=1107717559

American Night
newdoorstalk.proboards43.com/index.cgi?board=poet&action=display&thread=1107865645

[theholysha66]

As a Poet ...my feeling is that Jim is OK as a poet ...nothing brilliant ....

What Morrison has is this uncanny knack of being able to stand there and make u fuckin listen ...the man can capture you, like he did with an audience ...

Ray said on critique PBS 69 that spoken poetry is very effective . This i believe is so true, wen puttin Morrison in the picture ......Jim with the baritone voice, the pause the stance ....whatever the man says ....you listen ....

Talented poets cud stand their and recite their words to you and for the most part , you wud probably go ok , thats great but .......but there is something missing .....and i think that missink link was the presentation, how the person brings the words out .....and lets face it people morrison was a genius at this ...

[ensenada]

i believe he was a unique poet and a very good one. and i agree with holyshameister, that he could captivate an audience, that was his gift. he could hypnotise them with his charisma and voice and general aura! he does it to me everytime...

[theholysha66]

Morrison as a poet .........tough choice ....forget the last choice ...my granny was terrible as a poet .....but she cud cook up a storm .....

i dont know ..im not really into any poetry ......i just like the words ....to me morrison ...tells a story .....is that poetry.

like the songs for instance .....say riders on a storm ...its a song, but a story.....then u can have the journey or the holysha poem ....to me its a story ...one has music behind it the other doesnt .....

poems in the books ....the lords and new creatures/wilderness, the lost writings etc .......to me these are thoughts and stories.......

whats a poem

[ensenada]

i i dont reallu know the definitions of what a poem is, but i think they also can be ways of telling stories. or thoughts and ideas. i guess most of the doors songs sprang from jim's poetry. they can be one and the same thing virtually. i cant really say that jim was an amaxing poet or anything as i havnt read enough other peotry from all the famous poets. all i can say is that i love his words and they mean something to me. whether jim is saying or i am reading them. but listening to the words from jim is pretty sepcial to me. ;D

[stuart]

For me, No one else has described"Death" and Passing on through to the other side(just my own beliefs here!) in such an accurate, unique and profound way as jim did with the"They are waiting to take us into the severed garden..........." section.

Pure Brilliance