The Doors unhinged..Soft Parade cause & effect

[casandra]

Mar 5, 2011 20:18:42 GMT darkstar3 said:

Sugerman said Pamela had been despondent lately because of business affairs.

Jim Morrison tried to protect her with his will, in which he bequeathed everything to Pamela. Pamela received no money from the estate for almost two years because she objected to approximately $75,000 in attorney’s fees submitted by Max Fink and other for work on Morrison’s Miami trial among other duties. According to Hopkins, :It was a standoff for a while. Pamela changed lawyers four times and finally gave in and agreed to pay. She got about $150,000 cash (plus the investments in oil land) and she got that less than a year ago. The first thing she did was buy a VW and a mink coat.”

In late April, before Pamela’s death a lawsuit was filed in L.A. Superior Court on behalf of the three x-Doors, suing for $250,000 allegedly advanced to Jim Morrison as loans before his death. The lawsuit alleged that Pamela Morrison refused to let the surviving Doors deduct those advances from their royalties.

For a guy, Jim, who hated corporate America and he despised materialism, it is telling that investment in oil land as a Wall Street businessman...

Anyways, he also had a vision for the future, since the oil crisis began in 1973, when the oil prices rose very much.

Poor Pamela, I think they made suffer her a lot. What fight she had to be with these people. I don't understand why the three Doors just claimed $75,000 first and when she reached an agreement with them, then they demanded $250,000 that they allegedly had given to Jim.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Mar 6, 2011 10:16:20 GMT casandra said:

For a guy, Jim, who hated corporate America and he despised materialism, it is telling that investment in oil land as a Wall Street businessman...

I don't think Jim ever expressed any great opinions about either corporate America or materialism. I think we Doors fans just assume that because his actions gave that impression.
He liked his car and that was about it.
Material possessions seemd of little interest to him.
If he was cold he bought a coat. When warm again he gave the coat away.
Discovering he owned stock in oil does not really mean it was of any interest to him.
That's the difference really between him and a man like Ray.
Perhaps someone suggested it was a useful way of using his knew found assets and he agreed but I doubt he was one for looking at the morning paper to see how many points his shares had made.

He lived where ever he was at that moment and wandered through the day seemingly oblivious to the passing of time.
He enjoyed his art and liked to share it with others.
Of course he needed money to live and thats why he had an accountant but I doubt any of that was his driving force.

To some Doors fans it may seem like hypocrisy on his part that he owned a share in oil but we are the ones who assumed that he was anti material and on that assumption we sometimes judge him wrongly for it.
I know you are not saying that but some have expressed that view based on that very assumption.
He knew what it was like to have nothing and when money came his way I am sure he was comfortable with that.
But his books meant more to him than his bank account.
He was a strange man in many many ways.
It's not surprising that he presents a sometimes incongruous view of himself sometimes.

[casandra]

Sorry, I probably expressed it poorly. I agree with you.

I think he had some moral limits or prejudices on how to make money (for example, the episode Buick) and so I have taken it like some anti-materialism (invest in oil could be contrary to that). I realise that is to go too far.

Jim expressed better some nihilism and romanticism than anti-materialism. It is a kind of detachment from the material things, but not a kind of hermit on the top of a mountain.

I don’t judge him by where he invested his money. I neither consider him better or worse guy for that. It was his money and he could do with it whatever he wanted. The money was there, he had earned it and he used it for his needs, and his whims as well (why not?) without thinking more. In fact, I don't seem wrong that he would give Pamela everything she wanted. She was his girlfriend and it was his money so he could do whatever he wanted or liked with it, and I don't understand to the people who criticize this.

Probably his advisers, accountants and lawyers were who would advise him investing in a good business like oil. I also think he didn’t wake up every morning reading the Wall Street Journal or watching the Stock Exchange quotes. Probably he woke up thinking in a beer...

I guess that going from wandering homeless (young, free, unencumbered) to be a rich man within one or two years, I'm sure that it would be hard to assimilate for him what to do with so much money, although he wouldn’t be interested in that money.

Manzarek is another thing, in 5 words that he says: one is money, other about psychedelic drugs and another about Jim's crotch... and so he has spent the last 45 years (a leopard never changes its spots, I think I could say).

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Certainly never changed his spots has old Ray
I think that's the essential difference betwen Ray and Jim.
Jim had a great deal of generosity and regardless of the way he has been portrayed by his band mates seems to have had more regard for people than someone like Ray.

His mention on the student radio interview when he remembered the names of those who worked at the London Fog show that he had respect for those who helped him get where he was.

Manzarek shows scant respect for anyone and is a polar opposite of Morrison.
Of course Jim had a dark side and this should not to be respected by Doors fans but overall Jim was a good hearted person.

I doubt very much Ray will be remembered as that.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

There is no doubt about it that Buick drove the final wedge between the band as Jim knew his so called friends were more interested in money than art.
Obviously the third album can be seen as the beginning of the end for the realtionship but Buick most likely sealed the deal for Jim.

“Jim was mad as hell.
He called Ray and said, ‘Hell, this song will be classic.
We sell it in a damned ad, that’ll be the end of it, nobody’ll ever give it anything.’ He was just furious, and he hung up on him. And Pam said, ‘Jim, he’s your best friend;’ and Jim was sort of violent….and she said, “Well, what are you going to do? He said, ‘Don’t worry, they’re not gonna let their little goldfish swim away.’”
Columbus Courson (Pamela Courson’s Father):

“One of the few times I saw Jim angry was when he found out about, “Come on Buick Light My Fire.” Out of control. He felt betrayed. His partners had betrayed him, they had sold out to corporate America without asking him. I was there when he told them, “How could you do this to me? This my band too. How could you make that decision without me? One of them said, “Well man, you didn’t tell us where you were going, and the offer would have expired.” “So What?” He just didn’t get it. Whether he was gone for a day or a month, it didn’t matter, but you don’t sell out to the establishment. Postpone it or cancel but don’t give my soul away. That was the end of the dream. That was the end of that era of Jim’s relationship with the other members of the band; from them on it was business. That was the day Jim said, “I don’t have partners anymore, I have associates.”
Rich Linnell: A Feast Of Friends

'He was an artist. And I think the angriest he ever was happened when The Doors decided to let Buick use “Light My Fire.” I just remember this real unhappiness. I think if he ever was going to yell, he would have yelled that day. He didn’t yell, but to me it was almost like a light switched off.
That was like the last straw somehow. I’m not sure if he really liked Robby, Ray and John after that.
I think he could sense they had different purposes; they were more into the money and the business and would sacrifice some of the art for that.
Jim as not willing to sacrifice the art for anything.'
Cheri Siddons: A Feast Of Friends

People outside the Doors circle give a more balanced view of Jim's reaction to Buick.
Ray Manzarek's insane histrionic prattling in Light My Fire is no doubt entertaining but worthless as any form of Historical overview.
Ray blamed his invention Jimbo for the fiasco and used it as a handy foil to deflect any scrutiny from himself.
There has never been any information about what was done to find Jim as the whole focus of the Doors POV has always been Jimbo off on a drunken bender with his freak mates.
The exact date of Jim's arrival to discover the Buick events would be handy as it would provide some context to the Doors 'Jimbo' defence. If as seems likely he was in London then he was hardly off on a bender so the Doors prefer to keep it ambiguous so it can fit better with their story.

Another example of The Doors rift was the reaction to The Doors own film Feast Of Friends.
Jim wanted to complete it but The Doors pulled the plug after they were advised it was costing too much.
It's interesting as The Doors made so much of the footage used in the abominable film study When You're Strange but conveniently forget that the footage they used was ALL due to Jim Morrison's refusal to compromise on the art of The Doors.

“At school, at UCLA, I was always interested in film, as it seemed to combine my interests in drama, visual arts, music – and the profit motive!”
Ray Manzarek 1972 from The Doors In Their Own Words


More information on the Forum Calendar
The Buick Commercial Fiasco

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

The album Waiting For The Sun was released on Friday July 12th 1968 and just before that The Doors had been heavily touring in support of the forthcoming album and would continue to do so throughout 1968.
The interesting bit is that the matter of COTL was never resolved and would fester right up to the recording of the 4th album in November 1968.

Jim now knew that art was secondary to profit margins with his Doors partners. They would still perform well received shows but the seeds of disillusionment began to germinate.

The showcase show at The Hollywood Bowl the week before the album release had not gone according to plan. Ray Manzarek has wanted to expand The Doors stage show with pomp. Jim just decided to sing and stood stock still at the microphone for practically the whole show. The audience had expected sensation.
They were to be disappointed as Jim simply gave them himself.
A lot was riding on this show as luminaries were vying for position at the show hoping to see something awesome from Jim.
Nearly the whole show was filmed for the Feast Of Friends documentary.
Everyone expected something special.
Jim just sang.

Jim continued to give some stunning performances after his little bit of dissent at the Bowl but something was now missing from The Doors and that something was Unity.
Jim seemed to go out of his way to confound his band mates.
In Honolulu he seemed oblivious to the audience and hardly even spoke to them.
In Bridgeport things go well but Jim stays riveted to the microphone as a thunderstorm rages outside to add an ethereal strangeness to the performance.
At the Singer Bowl and Cleveland Auditorium Jim is accused of stirring up the crowd to fever pitch and causing a riot.
In Columbia Jim does a full version of COTL and an expanded version of The End as if to show that for him art over rode pop hits.
The new single 'Hello I Love You' which has been out for several months receives very scant attention from Jim up to the forthcoming European tour.

When the band do get to Europe Jim seems to have resigned himself to promoting the single and as a result it does break the band in Europe.
He is less than enthusiastic about shows like the UKs Top Of The Pops where band roll on and off miming to that weeks hit tune.
He described it as akin to sausages being produced on a production line.
The European Tour goes well and the band receive positive feedback even though Jim missed a gig as a result of something he ate.

Jim had already expressed a wish to slow down as he needed a rest from touring as he saw his writing was suffering by the constant demands of the road and promoting HILY.
Ray of course saw things differently and coerced Jim into his famous 'another six months'.
Jim took a short break in London after the rest returned to LA
but on returning found that the band was selling LMF to a car company.
He was not pleased.
So first his dream of poetry was cast aside to make way for lightweight material and now his so called friends had made a deal behind his back to sell the art for a 'sweet deal' with a car advert.

The band then go into the studio to record their fourth album and Jim takes the opportunity to make a statement as to what he feels about the situation he now found himself.
On February 25th after a meal and drinks in a Mexican restaurant called The Blue Boar Jim lays down a session which would become known 'Rock Is Dead'.

Surely a statement from Jim Morrison as to what he was feeling about the previous 12 month period in which he had seen his dreams shattered by the drive to make money rather than create.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Jim Morrison was very clear as to how he saw what he was doing.

"I'm not a new Elvis. I just think I am lucky.
I've found a perfect medium to express myself in.
Music, writing, theatre, action.
I'm doing all those things.
I like to write but songs are special.
I find music liberates my imagination.
When I sing my songs in public, that's a dramatic act.
Not just acting as in a theatre but social acting, real acting."
Jim Morrison 1969.

This seems unequivocal.
Jim Morrison said this either during this upheaval period or shortly afterwards.
He is nailing his colours firmly to the mast.
He is saying that The Doors are art to him.
It could not be clearer than if he had drawn a diagram and nailed it to Ray's forehead.

[casandra]

Could the episode Buick have happened one or two months before?, that is, before the European tour (september, 1968).

The date filed corporation is October 1, 1968, and the incident Buick supposedly happened before. Siddons says Jim disappeared four days, not 15-20 days (aproximately the days Jim and Pamela were in England -october, 1968-).

Corporation
DOORS PRODUCTIONS CORP.
Number: C0554106 Date Filed: 10/1/1968 Status: dissolved
Jurisdiction: California
Address
10920 WILSHIRE BLVD., SUITE 606
LOS ANGELES, CA 90024
Agent for Service of Process

Bill Siddons: “Jim had decided to disappear. Which for me, was the first time he disappeared. For four days no one had any idea where he was and suddenly Buick was offering close to a hundred thousand dollars to use, “Light My Fire.” Since Robby was the actual writer of the song, I felt he should make the decision. For some reason it was a high pressure, ‘You gotta give an answer now’ situation, so together we all decided, ‘Well, what the hell…..why not? You, know, we were all practically teenagers. I mean, Ray was the old guy at twenty-five. And Jim came back in a couple of days and just freaked out. He thought it was the tackiest thing in the world to do with The Doors’ music. Subsequently, I figured out that he was absolutely right. Jim knew what The Doors were doing and for what they meant to people, it was the wrong thing to do. Obviously it didn’t destroy their career, but it created a real anger in him (Jim) and the other three Doors. He felt betrayed by them because of it. And no one did it to betray him. We didn’t know what to do and it was free money being dangled in front of us.”

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Unfortunately that's the trouble.
People say so many things in The Doors world.

It may well have been, but Jim had a point when he said that regardless of the fact they could not contact him they did not make a decision without consulting him.

Imagine the furore if Jim, John and Robby had decided that Ray Manzarek would play banjo for the rest of 68 as they had a good offer for his keyboard equipment.

Of course its silly but the point remains the same.
Jim was not always around.
So does that mean that Ray, John and Robby spent everyday of their Doors life ensuring that Jim knew where they were in case something happened that needed their say so?

Of course they didn't so why should Jim not take 4 days off and not tell them what he was doing?

The whole argument that Jim dissapeared is a red herring to deflect attention from the treachery of those three.

Whenever it happened it was a betrayal of the trust Jim gave to them but that was not returned.

[adam]

i think that they didn't want to ask jim as they could predict his answer & it wasn't the answer they wanted

as far as i'm aware (..........) the band had credit cards that elektra picked up the tab for (& took the money out of their earnings)

so how hard to find where jim was staying?

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Mar 9, 2011 10:30:39 GMT adam said:

i think that they didn't want to ask jim as they could predict his answer & it wasn't the answer they wanted

Good point Adz and as he was dead they could really say what they wanted about it.
But when you think about it a bit their story does not add up.

[adam]

exactly

it's a retalitation thing...

"ok jim, so you're gonna be a pain in the studio & refuse to write commercial songs, well we just sold LMF to a car company, so how do you like that mister?"

[darkstar3]

September 21 1968

The Doors Return To Los Angeles

The morning following the Sweden show the Doors and road crew return to Los Angeles.

Ray & Dorothy Manzarek along with Jim and Pamela fly to London where Jim and Pam stay at the Belgravia Hotel through October 20 1968.

Ray and Dorothy spend two extra days in London and one of those includes visiting Jim and Pamela.


"They invited us over for breakfast. It was the most adult thing I ever saw Jim and Pam do. I was so proud of them. They were a couple. A man, and a woman, a unit, making breakfast for their friends. . . . bacon, fried eggs, toast with imported strawberry jam from Poland, and French roast coffee . . . They seemed quite at home and quite happy. It was the calmest and happiest I'd seen Jim since his "nervous breakdown." Light My Fire p. 298-299

OCTOBER 2 or 3, 1968 while Jim Morrison is in London, the other band members are approached by Buick with a lucrative offer for the use of “Light My Fire” as an underscore to a commercial. After efforts to contact Jim fail, they agree to the proposal. (The Doors On The Road p. 134)


October 13 1968
Michael McClure Visits Jim and Pamela at the Belgravia Hotel
London England

Sunday October 20 1968

Back in the States - Jim and Pam return from London and Jim immediately heads to rehearsals for their fourth upcoming album The Soft Parade.

Bill Siddons: “Jim had decided to disappear. Which for me, was the first time he disappeared. For four days no one had any idea where he was and suddenly Buick was offering close to a hundred thousand dollars to use, “Light My Fire.” Since Robby was the actual writer of the song, I felt he should make the decision. For some reason it was a high pressure, ‘You gotta give an answer now’ situation, so together we all decided, ‘Well, what the hell…..why not? You, know, we were all practically teenagers. I mean, Ray was the old guy at twenty-five. And Jim came back in a couple of days and just freaked out. He thought it was the tackiest thing in the world to do with The Doors’ music. Subsequently, I figured out that he was absolutely right. Jim knew what The Doors were doing and for what they meant to people, it was the wrong thing to do. Obviously it didn’t destroy their career, but it created a real anger in him (Jim) and the other three Doors. He felt betrayed by them because of it. And no one did it to betray him. We didn’t know what to do and it was free money being dangled in front of us.”


Columbus Courson (Pamela Courson’s Father): “Jim was mad as hell. He called Ray and said, ‘Hell, this song will be classic. We sell it in a damned ad, that’ll be the end of it, nobody’ll ever give it anything.’ He was just furious, and he hung up on him. And Pam said, ‘Jim, he’s your best friend;’ and Jim was sort of violent….and she said, “Well, what are you going to do? He said, ‘Don’t worry, they’re not gonna let their little goldfish swim away.’”

Rich Linnell: “One of the few times I saw Jim angry was when he found out about, “Come on Buick Light My Fire.” Out of control. He felt betrayed. His partners had betrayed him, they had sold out to corporate America without asking him. I was there when he told them, “How could you do this to me? This my band too. How could you make that decision without me? One of them said, “Well man, you didn’t tell us where you were going, and the offer would have expired.” “So What?” He just didn’t get it. Whether he was gone for a day or a month, it didn’t matter, but you don’t sell out to the establishment. Postpone it or cancel but don’t give my soul away. That was the end of the dream. That was the end of that era of Jim’s relationship with the other members of the band; from them on it was business. That was the day Jim said, “I don’t have partners anymore, I have associates.” (A Feast Of Friends p. 83)

Cheri Siddons: He was an artist. And I think the angriest he ever was happened when The Doors decided to let Buick use “Light My Fire.” I just remember this real unhappiness. I think if he ever was going to yell, he would have yelled that day. He didn’t yell, but to me it was almost like a light switched off. That was like the last straw somehow. I’m not sure if he really liked Robby, Ray and John after that. I think he could sense they had different purposes; they were more into the money and the business and would sacrifice some of the art for that. Jim as not willing to sacrifice the art for anything. (A Feast Of Friends p. 126)

Jim: “I’m the square of the western hemisphere. Whenever somebody’d say something groovy, it’d blow my mind. Now, I’m learning, I hate people. I don’t need them. If I had an axe, I’d kill everyone…….except my friends.” (1968 The Doors In Their Own Words p. 89)

Ray Manzarek recalls the Buick Commerical fiasco in his auto-biography, Light My Fire published in 1997:

“So to be asked to use a rock song over a commerical for a new, sharp little machine was at once lucrative and subversive. We could get "Light My Fire" played again on national television. We could get rock and roll on a medium that had very little to do with rock music. We could make a few inroads in the changeover of consiousness. Or so I thought. Back then. Back when I was a naif.

I approved the request posthaste. So did Robby and John. Jim was nowhere to be found. He was on one of his now more frequent disappearing trips. Probably off cavorting with Jimbo. Or perhaps locked in battle with Jimbo. Wrestling for control. Fighting for the destiny of the entity christened James Douglas Morrison.

When he finally did show up a few days later, the Buick commercial was a fait accompli. They needed a yes or no immediately. We said yes and signed paper. Jim freaked.

"You can't have signed without me!" he yelled.
"Well, we did," I said.
"Why, man? We do everything together. Why'd you do this without me?"
"Because you weren't here," said Robby.
"So what? Couldn't you have waited for me?"
"Who knew when you were coming back?" added John.
"They needed an answer right away," I said. "So we signed."
"It's not like it's typical Buick road hog or something." said
Robby. It's a cool little car."
"Gets real good mileage," said John.
"Four cylinders," I added. A sports car. Two-seater."
"Fuck You!" shouted Jim.

A silence filled the rehearsal room. Jim had never screamed like that before. He was enraged. And he looked wasted. He looked as if his nerve ends were frazzled. He looked as if he had been doing things he shouldn't have. And he looked shattered. He was clearly not in control of himself...or his emotions. He stomped around the room, agitated, hyper, angered.

"Fuck You guys!" he said again. "I thought it was supposed to be all for one and one for all. I thought we were suppose to be brothers!"

"Jiiim. we are, man" I said in feeble response to his strange and terrible outburst. Nothing has changed."
"You weren't here," said Robby.
"Everything has fucking changed, Ray! Jim said. "Everything!"
"Why? I don't understand. Just because we signed a contract for a fucking song...why has everything changed?" I asked him.

And then he came back with a line that really hurt me. Hurt John and Robby, too. Stabbed the Doors in their collective heart.

"Because I can't trust you anymore," he snarled.
"But it's good little car, man" protested John.

"It's fucking industry! It's corporate! It's the devil, you
asshole." Jim glared. "You guys just made a pact with the devil."
"The hell we did," said Robby.
"Oh yes you did, Robby. He seduced you with cute little gas efficient cars. He shows you what you want and then he puts a little twist in it. Makes you say yes to him when you know you shouldn't..." He paced the room, manic. "But you go along with it because the deal's just too good. It tastes too good." And then he looked at me, "It's too much money, isn't it Ray?"
"Fuck You, Jim." I was getting pissed too.

Another knife in the heart. Was this actually Jim saying these things? Did he really believe what he was saying?

"Well, I'm not in it for the fucking lifestyle, man." I snarled back. "I just wanna make music. And if we can make some money at it...that's cool with me."

"Lots of money," Jim sarcastically said under his breath.
"What'd you say?"
"You heard me."
He was really pushing it.
Robby jumped into the fray. "Why weren't you here, man? A big decision had to be made and you weren't here, again!"
"Where do you go all the time" asked John.
"Wherever I want!" Jim shot back. "And it's none of your fucking business. You understand?"

John turned away from Jim's penetrating glare. Unable to confront him. Unable to say what was really on his mind. Hell, none of us could confront him. None of us had the psychic strength to call him on the carpet and read the riot act to him. It was probably just what he needed. Maybe even what he wanted.

"No one tells me what to do, John. You got that?"
I jumped in. "Nobody’s telling you what to do, man. We just want to know how come you're never around when you're needed. Where the fuck were you?"
"We called everywhere," added Robby.
"You weren't home, you weren't at the Alta Cienga," I said. "We called Barneys, the Palms, the Garden District...you weren't at the Whisky, Mario hadn't seen you in a couple of weeks." "Even Babe
didn't know where you were," said Robby.


Jim erupted again. "Hey! This isn't about where I go." Then pointing an accusatory finger. "This is about you guys signing a contract without me." A silence filled the room again. Jim had broken out in a sweat. I felt cold and clammy. The evil green thing began wrapping its tentacles around my stomach, probing for weakness. I didn't like this. I didn't like this at all.

I felt bad, hurt, misunderstood. Here I was trying to hold the whole damn thing together. Trying to be the adult. Jim had abandoned ship.

He was over the top, gone. The Ray and Jim show from Venice do longer existed. I was the oldest. I had to try and maintain the dream, hoping he would snap out of this phase he was in. Hoping that it was a phase. An aberration, a momentary aberration. Hoping that he would come to his senses and we could resume our grail qust together. The four of us. The Doors. Brothers in the void. Supporting and nurturing one another. Hell, keeping one another alive! And we had so much more work to do. More music and poetry. Theater - Jim and I had talked of a multimedia theater project with actors and dancers and rear-screen projections and recitations and Doors' music - the "Magic Theater" of Hermann Hesse. Films, directed by me, starring Jim, music by Robby Krieger and John Densmore. And
finally politics. The takeover of America by the lovers! He had to snap out of it. He had to come back to his old self. His real self.

"Well, it's too late," said Robby.
Jim wheeled on him. "Oh, yeah? We'll see about that. I'm gonna smash a fucking Buick to dust on stage." He was perspiring more profusely now. "It's gonna be part of my new act. 'Smash a Buick to Smithereens.' We'll see how they like that. And then I'm gonna get Abe to sue their asses. For big bucks, Ray. For a lot more than their shitty little contract. Then let's see if they still want to use a Doors song to sell a sports car."

He was pacing and sweating and clearly out of control. He stormed out of the rehearsal room and rushed up to the offices, barged into Siddons room and told Bill to get our new, young hotshot lawyer -

Abe Sommers - on the phone. When he did, Jim got on the line and hollered at Abe to do whatever he could to stop the contract."Threaten' them with a lawsuit," he shouted into the phone. "Tell them I'm gonna smash a Buick with a sledgehammer onstage! Tell them anything! But stop the fucking contract!"

And in three days, Buick backed out. They simply decided they didn't want to go with a rock ad campaign after all. Nothing against the Doors or their music, you understand. They simply shifted demographic focus. It was done, finished. And Jim grinned from ear to ear. He had exercised his will against the corporate
establishment and he was a contented man. He made them back down. Hell, he made them back all the way out. It felt good. And he wanted more.

And that was called...Miami. (Ray Manzarek from his book ‘Light My Fire’ Pages 305-309

[adam]

"strange" how

cheri siddons says "jim never shouted"

bill says "it was the 1st time jim disapeared"

but the doors say

jim returned from one of his many disapearing acts & started shouting about the buick commercial

lots of hype & subversive text to create a smoke screen at how this wasn't "jimbo" being an arce-hole, it was James D Morrison being fucked over by his "friends"

@darkstar,

do you manually transcribe all that text? either way, great work

[darkstar3]

Mar 9, 2011 17:44:44 GMT adam said:

"strange" how

cheri siddons says "jim never shouted"

bill says "it was the 1st time jim disapeared"

but the doors say

jim returned from one of his many disapearing acts & started shouting about the buick commercial

lots of hype & subversive text to create a smoke screen at how this wasn't "jimbo" being an arce-hole, it was James D Morrison being fucked over by his "friends"

@darkstar,

do you manually transcribe all that text? either way, great work

If I can't find where someone else has transcribed quotes and snag them from an alternative source, then yes I do the transcripts. I have for years. There is no other way to share the text with other Doors fans. To scan the pages you get much more text than you want which could dilute the conversation. I won't transcribe an entire book just bits and pieces that can fit into a conversation. I've been at this for 11 years now so its not like I just transcribed everything all at once.

Thanks so much for your interest.

[jym]

yeah, it was a red herring that Jim "disappeared." In Sara's post Ray says in his book he and Dorothy had breakfast w/ Jim and Pam in London. Ray had an idea of where Jim was and what hotel to contact.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Exactly mate.
It's like the point Adz made a couple of posts up about how Jim shouted/didn't.
People look to Ray for the definitive tale but the guy has been spouting the first thing to come out of his silly head for over 30 years.

If you examine the period of the Buick event then what the Doors say does not make a whole lot of sense.
The Jimbo dissapearance tale just a way of deflecting the scrutiny away from Ray and the other two.

Jim has gotten a bad rap for decades now and we Doors fans have just gone along with it.
Maybe it's time for fans to start to question these people when they get a chance because there is a lot of stuff that needs an answer that does not involve Jimbo did this or Jimbo did that.
I for one don't believe in Jimbo.
He is like Bigfoot a good way to sell something whether it's an album or a tourist attraction.

Jimbo only exists in the diseased mind of The Doors keyboard player.

[gizmo]

Mar 9, 2011 19:45:45 GMT TheWallsScreamedPoetry said:

Jimbo only exists in the diseased mind of The Doors keyboard player.

that's what happens when you take a lot of lsd, but the problem is that you won't know yourselve. and he is saying to others that lsd and x is good stuff. he doesn't mention that you become a liar from it and that you believe in your lies as well

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

This is a very interesting piece of information for you and reflects on the topic in hand as it serves to show the importance of Jim Morrison to the plans of one Raymond Daniel Manczarek.

John did this on a couple of occasions but in December 1967 he asked for a rest from touring as he was 'exhausted' and requested they get a substitute for the Northwestern shows in Portland and Seattle.
Now we do not know whether he was genuinly exhausted or having one of his many hissy fits as JD was often throwing his drumsticks in the air and breaking out in rashes.

the interesting thing was that a drummer called John Kilor from a band called The Daily Flash filled in for John during the shows at The Eagles on December 3rd and the night before at the Coliseum in Oregon.
#As with everything Doors this event might even have happened the month before with gigs in Seatlle and Oregon on November 10 and 11th.

nevertheless John was allowed a rest and came back for the next dates with The band.
Of course jim was asking for a longer break in the summer of 1968 but if it was apparent that the drummer was feeling the strain.
And lets give him the benefit of the doubt and take this as the case.
Then surely the strain on the guy up front was inordinately higher.
Ray was fine as he just sat there night after night at his keyboard whilst Jim was the focus of the group and was that even after the shows.
His inability to see that the strain that afflicted the drummer was nothing compared to the singers problems shows how he failed miserably to respect Jim when he wheedled another 6 months out of him.

Jim was not just feeling strain but also dissapointment and dissillusionment at the way his ideas had been dismissed by the band in favour of a throwaway song he wrote back in his Venice days.

Interesting to compare the two cases.
The conclusion is NOT that one Door was more important than another in terms of the band but that Jim Morrison was essential to the selling opportunites that were coming as a result of HOLY's success.
If Jim had been given a break it's unlikely that the European tour would have happened in 1968 and possibly would have been shelved permenantly.
Who knows?

[gizmo]

i think that ray didn't know how to run a band (as he claimed to be the leader having control of the band). the problem with singing is that (at that time) you couldn't see inside the singers throat to see if the voice needed rest. singing is a skilled training wich over the years will develop into a trained muscele, but is hard see when the muscle had some overload or gets tired.
john could show it by missing notes(on purpose) or react in a different way(while jim was told he drank to much) john could say he was tired AND replaceable. jim was the frontman and surely missed by the audience and the band plus, jim claimed to drink because he could stay awake and keep on going.
the question is of ray is to blame for knowing nothing about keeping a band together as they all made an agreement not to hire a new agent(like sal and ash)

i think ray went after the money after paul rothchild said they should record as much as possible because he didn't knew how long jim would last.
jim drank because he was presurised doing to many gigs (look at the callendar on this site, there's hardly one day off) and being the man that the audince expected.
the other 3 doors start to complain about his behaviour, so jim drank more to forget

it's a strange circle