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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Feb 28, 2005 8:52:24 GMT
We all know how good (or not) Jim Morrisons poetry reading is on the album but what do you guys think of the Doors musical interpretation of Jim's poetry. Paul Rothchild was totally scathing calling it a 'rape' of Jim Morrison which was possibly a bit extreme but shows the passions involved in the project. Years after its release the band also took Jim's Orange County Suite poem and did a 'John Lennon' on it turning it into a Doors song which it may or may not have been intended as.....# So were Ray, John & Robby respectful of the Jim Morrison legacy when they made this album or were they just looking for a way to make a buck?
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Feb 28, 2005 8:56:18 GMT
We are obsessed with heroes who live for us and whom we punish Jim Morrison: The Lords.
"In my mind what they did to An American Prayer was on a par with taking a painting by Picasso cutting it up into hundreds of small pieces and spreading it across a supermarket wall. It was the first commercial sell out of Jim Morrison. Paul Rothchild
"I hope the audience who are going to listen to this album will perceive that it's a quite unique experience. It's not something to put on while you are doing the dishes or mending the car. You have to put on the record sit down and listen. It demands....all it asks is for forty minutes of your time and if you give that forty minutes we'll take you someplace you have never been before." Ray Manzarek
"This is not one of your Jimi Hendrix fourth album after he died thing, jamming in the background with some fat jazz sax player. Nor is it the case of the record company going back into the files and digging out some old tapes and putting them in a new jacket. This is Jim's poetry album. He never got to finish it so now Ray, Robby and I are doing it for him. It's going to be like a biography. His childhood, teenage years, young man, public life. We are gonna write some new music under the poems and we'll have a little bit of old stuff to tie it up plus some nice stories he tells about making films, various things in his life. They make it kinda biographical. And so it has a little theme. It's Jim's life really." John Densmore
"I just happened to be thinking about the poetry Jim had recorded about five years back....someone must have mentioned it to me or something.....so I called up John Haeny who engineered the sessions and said..'Whatever happened to Jim's poetry tapes? Do you have any copies?' The guy said 'Better than that I have the originals. Why don't you and the other guys come over and we can listen to them. See if there's anything there and maybe we can do something with them.'.....and that's how it all got started." Robby Krieger
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Feb 28, 2005 9:22:29 GMT
"I think anything that was done during Jim's lifetime that might have offended him would DISAPPEAR into total insignificance compared to what I'm POSITIVE would have been his reaction to An American Prayer. That album is a RAPE of Jim Morrison. It was HEAVILY edited. I have a tape of Jim reading most of that poetry in the style and meter that he intended. Jim and I discussed poetry a great deal. I got him to listen to poets like Dylan Thomas reading his own works, and Jim definitely got things out of it. Jim was always talking to me about the progress of words, their meter, their sequence, their flow. He was very concerned about how he presented his poetry. When I listen to that original tape, I hear something compelling. To Doors fans - and there are a few who have heard it - the poetry is chilling.
To me, what was done on An American Prayer is the same as taking a Picasso and cutting it into postage stamp sized pieces spreading it across a Supermarket wall. All Jim's poetry has been cut into bits and spread across a long instrumental composition that is irrelevant. Jim never intended this kind of approach to be done with his poetry. When he went into the studio to record it, it was to get AWAY from the Doors. In a way, it was his signal to the other Doors that he was moving away from them. He definitely wouldn't have used Doors' music. He was talking to people as diverse as Lalo Schifrin, whom he wanted to write some very avant-garde classical music. He wanted it to be sparsely orchestrated.
I think An American Prayer is RUDE. The Doors and Danny and me - anyone involved - should be concerned with preserving the integrity of the Doors' career and the memory of Jim Morrison, even though we should all tell the truth. But An American Prayer was an embarrassment. It was the first commercial sell-out of Jim Morrison. Jim would be humiliated by it as a sensitive person, and incensed by it as a poet. The damage is done, I'm afraid. Let's all hope that this sort of thing doesn't happen again, though, because it takes the Doors farther away from what they really were - one of the all-time great rock 'n' roll bands. And the proof is already out there for everyone to see. We don't NEED anymore convincing." Paul Rothchild to BAM Magazine July 1981
"Yes, we talked about that. He wanted to do it. And I agreed so we entered into a separate non-Doors agreement about the poetry. Some people thought that we entered into this as a sop to Jim. I don't think it was that. There was a willingness to accommodate him. He hadn't told me that he planned to burn the candle at both ends and die. We did go in on a Sunday and we did record several hours of his poetry. Then I couldn't get him back into the studio to do any more. I think he was unsure of himself. He liked the idea of electronics and poetry but he had no notion as to how to complete the idea and that's why the thing lay fallow for awhile until it was resurrected on An American Prayer. Now I think if he's got a record player wherever he is that he would be pleased with An American Prayer. I think it's a wonderful record." Jac Holzman talking to DCM in reply to whether Jim actually wanted to record his poetry.
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Feb 28, 2005 16:59:15 GMT
Jim Morrison Lives--on New Doors Tune
The Lizard King lives. Sort of.
For about five minutes Wednesday it was 1966 all over again on Los Angeles' Sunset Strip as Jim Morrison's somber baritone wafted anew through the Whisky a Go-Go, eerily intoning "Orange County Suite"--the first new Doors tune in a quarter of century.
Yes, the Doors are back, and even though lead singer, guiding force and resident shaman Morrison is interred in a Paris cemetery, he's still fronting the band. As the Threetles did with John Lennon, the Doors' three surviving members--keyboardist Ray Manzarek, 62, guitarist Robby Krieger, 51, and drummer John Densmore, 51--unearthed an old demo, featuring a haunting Morrison accompanying himself on piano, and fleshed it out with a new backing track. The trio returned to the Whisky Wednesday to debut the result. "It was an opportunity to complete the song for Jim, and, quite frankly, we wanted to play together again," said Manzarek. "It's got a mood to it that sort of dark and ominous, yet full of love."
The song, which isn't as creaky or thin as the Beatles' recent releases, will be featured on a four-disc box set due October 28 that assembles outtakes, demos, rarities, unreleased concert footage and a selection of the members' favorite songs. A video set is also in the works. "Some of this stuff is less than perfect," noted a gaunt Krieger. "But the perfomance is more important than how perfect the music is. It's like the three of us unzipping our flies and whipping it out for all to see."
And the boys know something about whipping it out. Morrison was arrested following a Miami concert in 1969 for alleging exposing himself to the audience. The taboo-testing singer also cost the group a gig as the Whisky's house band in 1966. The quartet had a steady job opening for the likes of the Byrds and Buffalo Springfield until Morrison performed the overtly Oedipal "The End" and the band was fired on the spot.
This is the second time the Doors have resurrected Morrison--who died in a hotel bathtub of heart failure at age 27--for an album. They added background music to An American Prayer, a collection of the singer's spoken-word poetry, released in 1995. (In a solemn aside, the three remaining Doors said if they had it to do over again, they would have put the brakes on Morrison's boozing.)
Each of the band members has pursued their own side projects, with Manzarek, who frequently plays with other 60s-era poets, being the most active. The last time the group played together as the Doors was during their induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1993. Pearl Jam's Eddie Vedder sat in for the group. When asked if the Doors would reform with a new vocalist to promote the box set, an agitated Manzarek dismissed such a tour as "tacky."
However, he quickly added that a tour in one to two years is not inconceivable. Who would fill in for Morrison? "How about Chrissie Hynde?" suggested Manzarek.
It's not like they need the money though. The Doors' catalog has sold some 45 million records worldwide.
by Marcus Errico E On Line Oct 8th, 1997
Doors Debut Morrison Song At Los Angeles' Whiskey a Go-Go club, the surviving members of the Doors recently held a press conference to debut the band's forthcoming box set. Drummer John Densmore, guitarist Robbie Krieger and keyboardist Ray Manzarek reminisced about the old days, adding that they had no immediate plans to perform publicly. However Manzarek said the band might perform in support of the release if they come up with more new material. The Doors Box Set contains four CDs, three with previously unreleased material and one with favorites of the band members. A new track featuring a poem by the late Jim Morrison, titled Orange County Suite, was resurrected by the band who added music and accompaniment (much as the Beatles' Free as a Bird and Real Love). The Doors Box Set is due in stores on October 28. Classic Rock News 1997
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Post by danceonfire on Mar 1, 2005 20:55:51 GMT
I love An American Prayer. I think the music helps back Jim's poetry beautifully. It wouldn't sound right without the music. It is one of my favorite albums.
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Post by wyldlizardqueen on Mar 2, 2005 22:05:48 GMT
I love An American Prayer. I think the music helps back Jim's poetry beautifully. It wouldn't sound right without the music. It is one of my favorite albums. I second that, me to:)
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Post by moses on Mar 3, 2005 11:44:19 GMT
I'M told that Jim liked that the book AMP was pocket sized.
While I do think it was just a commercial venture for Manzarek inc. I do think it has some redeeming value.
Sorry Alex but for me the first sell out was Weird Scenes Inside The Goldmine.
Funny how things like Orange County Suite were deemed unfit at the time but regurgitated later. Or things like Underwaterfall cut and pasted together like a child collage.
I hate to admit it in public but I kind of like Underwaterfall.
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Mar 3, 2005 13:26:11 GMT
OCS couldn't have been done for commercial reasons at least as it was never released as a single like that Beatles garbage....maybe it was a genuine attempt to complete the song that had been worked on as a Doors thing....
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Post by ensenada on Mar 3, 2005 16:27:59 GMT
I love An American Prayer. I think the music helps back Jim's poetry beautifully. It wouldn't sound right without the music. It is one of my favorite albums. i agree it his poetry and voice sounds stunning with the music. however, it sounds just as good with out the music in a way. to hear Jim say the poetry in its raw form as he intended it to be. or perhaps he would have wanted to add music to it later?
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Mar 3, 2005 16:50:26 GMT
Jim intended to add sound effects and some music to the poetry he recorded but I think its pretty universally accepted that he intended NO DOORS to be involved in the poetry album he and Jac Holzman had discussed several times......
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Post by danceonfire on Mar 3, 2005 16:51:10 GMT
i agree it his poetry and voice sounds stunning with the music. however, it sounds just as good with out the music in a way. to hear Jim say the poetry in its raw form as he intended it to be. or perhaps he would have wanted to add music to it later? When he recorded the poetry, he had all intentions of having music and sound effects added as background. But, unfortuantely, he never got to make his poetry album. I guess it would sound just as good without music backing it, but the music adds to the poetry.
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Post by ftw on Mar 4, 2005 0:28:37 GMT
one of the best cds i own and i hear it when i have writersblock
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Post by ensenada on Mar 4, 2005 9:37:55 GMT
what do you write FTW? Jym also writes stories and poetry! the CD is one of my favourites in the right moment. one of my fave times for playing an american prayer is when i come home from a night out, drunk. i stick it on in bed in the dark and generally fall asleep to it.
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Mar 18, 2005 9:49:52 GMT
"American Prayer was a private edition that Jim handed out to friends and certain fans and in the past seven years I've had people come up to me and say...'how do I get a copy'? I've heard of it and want to read it.' So naturally we thought it would have to be included on an album. It was so good we felt it belonged in a larger scope than just 500 copies out there somewhere.... We ran into snags! The fact is this album is so revolutionary in the way that we make it that we should never have projected dates. There was no way to tell how long something like this was going to take. We thought this shouldn't take more than a month. It took three months. We had no models to work from." Ray Manzarek. 1978
"We've ben researching these damn poems for about a year or so but the last few months have been getting serious, meeting a couple of times a week. We'll get into it five days a week wrap it up and have it out by Christmas." John Densmore 1978
"Jim always had a sense of implied rhythm in his poems so consequently it was pretty easy for us as musicians to lock into a rhythm one way or another. Ghost Song for example.....in the end Jim gets to talking about the dead Indians on the highway so we knew that required an Indian beat. So John got started on the drums with this tom-tom beat and from there I put in an Em7/Em9 on top, Robby started on his guitar a couple of licks and lines and then on top of that we just put Jim's poetry. We spaced it out a little bit. Made a few cuts....here and there....kinda 'wait Jim, wait four bars and let us play this little line, then you can come back in'. It was almost like working with the man in person. It was a very eerie feeling. It was the three of us and Jim on tape but his prescence was almost tangible..." Ray Manzarek. 1980
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Post by othercircles on May 1, 2005 17:20:42 GMT
The last time the group played together as the Doors was during their induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1993. Pearl Jam's Eddie Vedder sat in for the group. When asked if the Doors would reform with a new vocalist to promote the box set, an agitated Manzarek dismissed such a tour as "tacky."
lol... interesting.....
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Post by othercircles on May 1, 2005 17:23:09 GMT
So wahts the deal with Orange County Suite? That sounds like singing to me. Not poetry readings. DId they 'Pro Tools' it up to make him sound like he was singing? Or did he sing it all by himself?
Or I rather believe a story i remember reading from one of the doors.. that it was origionally done with the band in 1970.. but that the doors found their origional instrumentation to be crap and they redid all their parts just prior to release.
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on May 1, 2005 17:52:40 GMT
Morrison 'sang' quite a few poems during the 2 poetry sessions so OCS could have come from there....its also possible that OCS was done in the studio during a Doors recording session....Whisky Mystics & Men was done like that and it was originally a poem.... hard to say as we never get the real story from those who were there.....
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Post by othercircles on May 2, 2005 0:33:57 GMT
As a musician I rather believe WMM was done back then. That wobbly keyboard thing (forget the name) is such a 60's thing. And the way rays voice sounds on those "da da daaaa" s
great track that is.
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Post by hippieflowergirl67 on May 16, 2005 6:41:13 GMT
I loved it, but made a mistake of playing it in the car....
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Post by ensenada on May 16, 2005 12:16:38 GMT
why what happened? did you fly into a field or something?
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