Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Dec 25, 2010 10:34:56 GMT
Should HWY have been used for the WYS Doors documentary?
Few interesting points by someone on the IMDb movie database When You're Strange section.
I never thought of it like that but it is indeed a fair point about HWY being used completely out of context.
Obviously DiCillo was limited in the footage that was available but using HWY (whether or not he only used out take footage) to emphasise various points in his film perhaps did not work as well as he expected.
I never thought HWY much of anything really, essential for a Doors fan but not very interesting, but as the lady says it WAS a personal tale Jim was trying to convey.
Perhaps in the rush to profit from Jim Morrison for the new decade The Doors have lost sight of what all four tried to achieve back in 1965.
Just in the way DiCillo trivialises Jim's poetry by using short snippets read by Depp on the sountrack maybe he has done the same with Morrison's one and only contribution to the cinematic form.
Would DiCillo like someone to cut up one of his works and use it for a backdrop to informing the world he was a piss head drunk?
Maybe a more sensible idea would have to have released HWY in it's entirety along with any out takes and let it be judged as a finished film.....as indeed it was a finished film as we have read from Jim's friends that HWY was completed and not a work in progress.
I OBJECT
by irishgirl68-2 6 hours ago (Thu Apr 15 2010 19:31:54)
UPDATED Thu Apr 15 2010 20:49:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"First off, loved seeing the film. I agree with what's been said, in that it's almost like Jim's alive, and we're watching something that's currently being played out. I loved seeing clips in colour that I'd only seen in black and white. There was a bit of Jim singing live which was great (a bit more would have been better than the soundtrack overlaying live performances).
.
What I object to is the editing, specifically, the use of HWY. HWY had a self-exploratory nature that was pure in it's simplicity. It's Jim's journey - across the country, the desert, and into the city of angels. HWY was used to fulfill narrative objectives in a way that bypasses WHY Jim made the movie. It's a personal tale, to be sure, but not a tale of folly and degeneration, but one that shows his connectivity to nature and the way his new lifestyle is in direct contrast with his spiritual identity.
.
My other objection is to Ray calling Jim's "alter ego" Jimbo. I resented this. I thought, "How would I feel if my life had been reduced to an analogy of a circus performer?" I agree that there were parallels there, but there was no mention of how EVERYONE was complicit in making Jim who he was. It wasn't just Jim who developed this personae of Jim Morrison - they all were - Jim, Ray, Robby, John, the execs, the fans, the media - not just Jimbo. Everyone was attempting to achieve their own ends at Jim's expense (and still are as it seems). I am in no way trying to "get Jim off lightly." He was responsible for creating his image to, but when a person degenerates as quickly as Jim did in a few years, you don't say, "Give it six more months," when he wants to leave the band.
.
Not a lot was said that I hadn't heard before. I've seen most of the clips, also. I do wish more had been said about Miami, The tapes are out there... should they be released? I don't know... I don't want to see my rock and roll "hero" reduced to a buffoon or some celebrity waste case (Lord knows we have enough of those in music right now), so I'm up in the air that respect.
.
When diluted, the film was good, but it was just a... film - nothing more. It's people who knew him once replaying the old Morrison folktales. There was little humanizing of a man who was obviously complex. Jim had to be more than a petulant drunken lout; he was shy, sensitive, fascinated with dark thoughts, mysticism - why wasn't this man represented? In order for the mythology to survive the symbols have to be reinforced. It's been 20 years since The Doors, so what better way to keep the money machine going than to reinforce the symbols and mythology to a new generation. Perhaps they'll sell more than one million albums this year....
.
No-one knows what went on in Paris July 3, 1971; yet, I do hope that Jim had some happiness in his life at the end"
I have had a copy of HWY for about 7 or 8 years now and have watched it in it's entirety twice with a look at sections maybe a half dozen times or more. I was never that taken with the film which seemed to me to be some kind of backwards redemption tale. The hitch hiker moves from the fresh air of the hills to find redemption in the sleaze of the city instead of the other way round. I make no great claims to know what Morrison was trying to convey here.
I found the film pretty boring on one level but fascinating to see Jim away from his superstar lifestyle having fun with his mates making a movie on another.
We see a different Jim in this film. We get a sense of his mischievous side with his phone call to McClure which had the poor guy running around panicking that Jim had murdered someone and we see him enjoying life doing something he loved free from his self imposed Lizard King prison.
Whether or not that should be chopped up and used out of context as a way to make a buck for his three mates is an interesting debate and one that seems to have been missed in our headlong rush to see, absorb, analyse and either like or dislike DiCillos film.
On one hand I enjoyed seeing the footage on the big screen in superb condition but now having seen this point raised by irishgirl68 on IMDB I feel a tad guilty.
We fans have been crying out for HWY and FOF for so long I can't remember the first time I thought of such things but for our first view of the pristine HWY film footage it seems to have been twisted out of proportion to make points that it was never envisiged to make.
Few interesting points by someone on the IMDb movie database When You're Strange section.
I never thought of it like that but it is indeed a fair point about HWY being used completely out of context.
Obviously DiCillo was limited in the footage that was available but using HWY (whether or not he only used out take footage) to emphasise various points in his film perhaps did not work as well as he expected.
I never thought HWY much of anything really, essential for a Doors fan but not very interesting, but as the lady says it WAS a personal tale Jim was trying to convey.
Perhaps in the rush to profit from Jim Morrison for the new decade The Doors have lost sight of what all four tried to achieve back in 1965.
Just in the way DiCillo trivialises Jim's poetry by using short snippets read by Depp on the sountrack maybe he has done the same with Morrison's one and only contribution to the cinematic form.
Would DiCillo like someone to cut up one of his works and use it for a backdrop to informing the world he was a piss head drunk?
Maybe a more sensible idea would have to have released HWY in it's entirety along with any out takes and let it be judged as a finished film.....as indeed it was a finished film as we have read from Jim's friends that HWY was completed and not a work in progress.
I OBJECT
by irishgirl68-2 6 hours ago (Thu Apr 15 2010 19:31:54)
UPDATED Thu Apr 15 2010 20:49:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"First off, loved seeing the film. I agree with what's been said, in that it's almost like Jim's alive, and we're watching something that's currently being played out. I loved seeing clips in colour that I'd only seen in black and white. There was a bit of Jim singing live which was great (a bit more would have been better than the soundtrack overlaying live performances).
.
What I object to is the editing, specifically, the use of HWY. HWY had a self-exploratory nature that was pure in it's simplicity. It's Jim's journey - across the country, the desert, and into the city of angels. HWY was used to fulfill narrative objectives in a way that bypasses WHY Jim made the movie. It's a personal tale, to be sure, but not a tale of folly and degeneration, but one that shows his connectivity to nature and the way his new lifestyle is in direct contrast with his spiritual identity.
.
My other objection is to Ray calling Jim's "alter ego" Jimbo. I resented this. I thought, "How would I feel if my life had been reduced to an analogy of a circus performer?" I agree that there were parallels there, but there was no mention of how EVERYONE was complicit in making Jim who he was. It wasn't just Jim who developed this personae of Jim Morrison - they all were - Jim, Ray, Robby, John, the execs, the fans, the media - not just Jimbo. Everyone was attempting to achieve their own ends at Jim's expense (and still are as it seems). I am in no way trying to "get Jim off lightly." He was responsible for creating his image to, but when a person degenerates as quickly as Jim did in a few years, you don't say, "Give it six more months," when he wants to leave the band.
.
Not a lot was said that I hadn't heard before. I've seen most of the clips, also. I do wish more had been said about Miami, The tapes are out there... should they be released? I don't know... I don't want to see my rock and roll "hero" reduced to a buffoon or some celebrity waste case (Lord knows we have enough of those in music right now), so I'm up in the air that respect.
.
When diluted, the film was good, but it was just a... film - nothing more. It's people who knew him once replaying the old Morrison folktales. There was little humanizing of a man who was obviously complex. Jim had to be more than a petulant drunken lout; he was shy, sensitive, fascinated with dark thoughts, mysticism - why wasn't this man represented? In order for the mythology to survive the symbols have to be reinforced. It's been 20 years since The Doors, so what better way to keep the money machine going than to reinforce the symbols and mythology to a new generation. Perhaps they'll sell more than one million albums this year....
.
No-one knows what went on in Paris July 3, 1971; yet, I do hope that Jim had some happiness in his life at the end"
I have had a copy of HWY for about 7 or 8 years now and have watched it in it's entirety twice with a look at sections maybe a half dozen times or more. I was never that taken with the film which seemed to me to be some kind of backwards redemption tale. The hitch hiker moves from the fresh air of the hills to find redemption in the sleaze of the city instead of the other way round. I make no great claims to know what Morrison was trying to convey here.
I found the film pretty boring on one level but fascinating to see Jim away from his superstar lifestyle having fun with his mates making a movie on another.
We see a different Jim in this film. We get a sense of his mischievous side with his phone call to McClure which had the poor guy running around panicking that Jim had murdered someone and we see him enjoying life doing something he loved free from his self imposed Lizard King prison.
Whether or not that should be chopped up and used out of context as a way to make a buck for his three mates is an interesting debate and one that seems to have been missed in our headlong rush to see, absorb, analyse and either like or dislike DiCillos film.
On one hand I enjoyed seeing the footage on the big screen in superb condition but now having seen this point raised by irishgirl68 on IMDB I feel a tad guilty.
We fans have been crying out for HWY and FOF for so long I can't remember the first time I thought of such things but for our first view of the pristine HWY film footage it seems to have been twisted out of proportion to make points that it was never envisiged to make.