We Were At The JM Concert & Want Refund Dec 2010

[darkstar3]

Miami New Times Herald

December 16 2010

We were at the Jim Morrison concert, and we want a refund
By Jorge Casuso
Thursday, Dec 16 2010

So the state of Florida has pardoned Doors frontman Jim Morrison. That may be a good thing for artistic freedom and all, but I still want my money back.

I was a kid living in Westchester when my friend's parents took the neighborhood gang to see our favorite band at Dinner Key Auditorium on March 1, 1969. We had memorized, scrutinized, and analyzed the lyrics to "The End" and "When the Music's Over," conjecturing about where the "blue bus" went and what might have happened in that "Roman wilderness of pain." We could even strum "Light My Fire" on our guitars.

So it was hard to believe we were standing right there near the side of the stage waiting for our artistic heroes to rock out. There are varying accounts of the evening and whether Morrison pulled little Jimmy out to wave to the crowd. All I remember is the band playing an interminable intro — was it "Break on Through" or "When the Music's Over"? — as the crowd grew restless waiting for the singer.

Morrison stepped, or rather staggered, onto the stage like a good shepherd with a white lamb in his arms and a half-finished whiskey bottle in his hand. He put the bottle on the amp, held onto the lamb, and grabbed the microphone. Finally, a song! But instead, all he did was rant against the system and how "the man" was oppressing us. Then there was something about screwing our teachers, and rebelling against our parents (two of whom had driven us in their station wagon and were watching from the back of the auditorium).

Hey, what happened to the song? we wondered. Then, as the band broke into another endless riff, Morrison did something we couldn't see, and suddenly "the man" appeared in blue uniforms and whisked him off. I remember the amps swaying as the crowd rushed the stage and the band split. Last thing we saw was Morrison standing on the balcony shirtless in his black leather pants with his white lamb and a couple of chicks.

It was the worst concert we ever saw. The Echo doing Doors covers at Columbus High School dances was better. So if Charlie Crist — or Rick Scott — is listening, it's all good to pardon a dead man, and Morrison's Hotel ended up being one hell of an album. But something has to be done to refund the money we cobbled together mowing lawns and squirreling away our allowances. Crist, we want our money back!

www.miaminewtimes.com/2010-12-16/....want-a-refund/#

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Interesting veiwpoint and very valid but it takes no account of the flipside to that argument.
What about Jim Morrison's expectations of the audience that had become a rabid bunch of LMF groupies. He too was entitled to a refund on the audience he believed was smart enough to understand his desire for COTL instead of LMF and poetry instead of pop.
The audience was as much to blame for Miami as Morrison was.
The more fame came The Doors way the more expectation of hits being played and hits being churned out in the studio to feed that voracious animal called an audience.
I was part of that myself even if I never got to experience the band live.
The expectaions from the audience never quite managed to harmonise with what the singer expected so Miami was something that was bound to happen.
If not at the Dinner Key it would have happened with an audience such as The Doors experienced in Seattle the next year or if not that something else would have been the catalyst.
By March 1969 it was two trains rushing headlong towards each other each unaware of the proximity of the other.
To be honest Jorge you really all got what you deserved that night.

[gizmo]

Jan 6, 2011 17:03:54 GMT TheWallsScreamedPoetry said:

Interesting veiwpoint and very valid but it takes no account of the flipside to that argument.
What about Jim Morrison's expectations of the audience that had become a rabid bunch of LMF groupies. He too was entitled to a refund on the audience he believed was smart enough to understand his desire for COTL instead of LMF and poetry instead of pop.
The audience was as much to blame for Miami as Morrison was.
The more fame came The Doors way the more expectation of hits being played and hits being churned out in the studio to feed that voracious animal called an audience.
I was part of that myself even if I never got to experience the band live.
The expectaions from the audience never quite managed to harmonise with what the singer expected so Miami was something that was bound to happen.
If not at the Dinner Key it would have happened with an audience such as The Doors experienced in Seattle the next year or if not that something else would have been the catalyst.
By March 1969 it was two trains rushing headlong towards each other each unaware of the proximity of the other.
To be honest Jorge you really all got what you deserved that night.

i don't think its valid at all, they payed for seeing (and hearing) the doors ,and they did. what is the definition of a bad preformance? sing out of key? not doing the dance they do on video?
all the ppl who bought tickets to see the rots(in the short period that they used the doors name for their gigs) should get their money back is this person is getting his money back.
if you buy a ticket for a show, the print on the ticket is only saying the bands name. not even if they will play(what you can asume, but it's not sure coz the ticket doesnt say so.
to bad that they learned how to play lmf on guitar but what if they didn't play it? would that be a reason to get your money back?

a year back there was a lawsuit in holland about train tickets, same story. ppl asumed they could sit when they bought a ticket for the train. but the judge said that you're paying for transpotation from one point to another, and not for a seat.
so now they have paid to see the doors, and they did see them. that the concert wasn't what they expeted is their problem.

just my opinion

;D

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Again mate a very fair point.
I guess it's a combination of everyone who was there expecting to see something different and being dissapointed.
Some of the audience came for sensation and got it whilst some came for music and were disapointed.
Morrison had seen his audience become freak show gawpers and his dissapointment resulted in him giving them something to gawp at.

I sometimes wonder what I would have been like at a Doors gig if I had gotten to the IOW say. What would I have expected in 1970?
I was just a daft kid then so I guess I would have juest fallen in with the crowd and been a LMF type member of the audience.
Took a while to actually figure out The Doors so at that stage I would have been a hit's type rather than one looking to see poetry and drama.

I don't think anyone much saw the 'real Doors' after Miami.
The odd flash maybe but Morrison was done with the audience by then and was drifting away from the band.
They managed to keep it together for the two albums which was remarkable but as a unit they were finished after the Buick carry on the Miami fallout.

I think a lot of the blame for all this should rest with John, Ray and Robby as they did not share Morrison's vision of what The Doors should be. WFTS and TSP proved that.
If they had gone in the poetry direction as Morrison wanted who knows Miami may never have happened and MH & LAW would have been very different albums.

[gizmo]

maybe it's jim's fault that he wouldn't go in the direction of the rest of the doors, if jim could recite poetry over music i really wander if they would have made it further than what they had become at that time, most of the audience doesn't like something different so, in economic view they would have dug their own grave i think (never change a winning formula).
the ppl got used to the raw rebelious way of creating a show(and in the shows new music was born) jim used the music to create poetry wich could be used for new songs. the rest of the poetry is used for poetry books.
i think the remaining 3 had a huge problem with the recording of an american prayer coz it ain't easy making music when the words are already on tape. they could cut each word so they could create a sort of rythm that goes along with the music but since the words are read and not sung you don't have to mutch variation.
if you want to do that for a live show it's getting even harder coz if you miss a beat you're missing words as well and so your poem is incomplete.

i think that it's all ran out of hand becouse of a lack of fresh winds and new ideas on all four sides of the band and therefore think that a break for a few years would have created a new fresh album in a style wich leans on the old sounds but with new styles as well.

btw in some dance and hip hop acts is poetry used, but a few ppl are paying attention to it coz the beats and bleep blop sounds are louder than the words

[darkstar3]

You both give an excellent synopsis of could have been done and what was done at this Miami show.

I've always considered the fact that Morrison dragged his feet getting to Miami. He got in an argument with Pamela in L.A. before he got to LAX. He missed his connecting flight in New Orleans preferring to stay at the bar instead. Siddons was finally sent to drag Morrison to the show and as we know he was very drunk before he went on stage. For all intent and purposes Morrison didn't want to do the Miami show.

Robby Krieger has said in several interviews when asked about this show he concluded that the peoples money should have been refunded.

In my opinion they should never have let Morrison on the stage and either cancelled this show all together or re-booked for a different time.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Jan 13, 2011 15:24:05 GMT gizmo said:

i think that it's all ran out of hand becouse of a lack of fresh winds and new ideas on all four sides of the band and therefore think that a break for a few years would have created a new fresh album in a style wich leans on the old sounds but with new styles as well.

True enough mate and also the bane of all musical groups or artists. Most bands have enough material when they first go into a studio for two albums but as they get more famous they have to go out on the road and don't get the time to rehearse. With The Doors the music was forged in club dates. But playing new stuff was hard when you have a hit album to support.
I think Morrison and co did not understand that the downside of fame was 'expectation' and that very 'expectation' was a cruel mistress. By album 3 Morrison wanted the poetry but the band found it hard to play to Jim's words. The record company wanted an album and in particular a hit from it and the audience just wanted shows.
By 1969 Jim was sick to death of it and as Sara says seems to have been reluctant to go to Florida.
A break was what Morrison wanted back in 68 but Ray wanted the fame and fortune and did not seem to care what it was doing to his mate.
For me Morrison should not have to shoulder all the blame for Miami and what followed. The other three were drugged up on the fame The Doors were getting and did not see how it was affecting Morrison.
The WFTS fiasco coupled with Buick had taken it's toll.
When you think about it The Doors crammed a lot of music and concerts into a very short period of time between 1966 and 1970.
A year or two out of touring would have done them a world of good and likely reinvigourated Morrison but Ray wanted the cash and the rest is History.

Jan 13, 2011 15:24:05 GMT gizmo said:

most of the audience doesn't like something different

I remember David Geffen once took issue with Neil Young over an album and said that it was not classic 'Neil Young' Neil mentioned that he had been playing music like that from day one and just did what he wanted. With The Doors the hits stuck them in a rut. That's why Zeppelin NEVER released a single here in the UK.

[gizmo]

wtf? led zep did no singles in the uk?
strange? but a good reason was there i think

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Jan 14, 2011 18:23:31 GMT gizmo said:

wtf? led zep did no singles in the uk?

Zeppelin did not want to be known as a singles band. Many of the American and Japanese Zepp singles were released without their consent by Atlantic. The only time a single came out here was when they did a limited promo for Physical Graffiti and released Black Country Woman as a promo single.
The Doors suffered a similar experience when Elektra released '13' behind their back which cemented their position as a hits type band and as a result their audiences expectations.

Morrison seemed to suffer a writers block around the time of WFTS and the Morrison Hotel album.
He wanted the poetry to prevail but the hit single mentallity of Jac and Elektra stifled his output for me and as a result for two years Robby came to the fore and wrote some excellent pop type tunes which further pushed the Doors toward the hit single.

When Jac first heard LA Woman he identified Love Her Madly instantly as a hit single but the band wanted The Changeling as they thought, correctly in this fans opinion, that that song personified the new Doors direction.
Jac took two weeks to bring them round and LHM was indeed a hit.
By the time ROTS made it as a shortened version single Jim was gone and it no longer mattered.

All this is explored on this months featured topic
The Doors unhinged..Soft Parade cause & effect

[kristyob]

"In my opinion they should never have let Morrison on the stage and either cancelled this show all together or re-booked for a different time." Yes, I think they would have if given a choice but according to Vince Treanor, that decision was taken out of their hands....

From The Freedom Man website:

"Finally Bill Siddons came in. On look at his face and we all knew there was trouble - Serious trouble. He explained that he had been in a mooting with the promoters - two guys who owned a Karate Club in Miami. There had been a big argument over the payment for the Doors.

The contract had called for a primary payment of $XXXX.00 and the ticket sales were limited to 8000 seats. However, when Bill had checked the places where tickets were sold he found that many more than 8000 had already been sold and more to come. The Promoters had violated the terms of the agreement. And, more astonishing, Bill knew that they had cheated at least three other groups and were being sued by the Musicians Union to recover the lost money. Yet Bill had signed an agreement with these guys.

When Bill tried to re-negotiate the payment for the extra seats the brothers laughed at him. They had an agreed price and that was it. Bill called in the Musicians Union and they got their Lawyers. Of course they wondered why Bill had ever agreed to any dealings with these guys, he had been warned by the union that they were trouble. The negotiations went no where. So Bill said - "Ok, we will not play at all. We cancel the performances on breach of contract. Well, certainly he could. However this did not seem to bother the brothers too much. The "Boss" simple asked Bill where the equipment was. Bill replied "At the Auditorium I assume."

The reply was frightening, "No, it is in our truck. If you ever want to see it again you will play."

We had scheduled a tour with at least 12 or 16 dates. It was to be the longest tour the boys had ever been on. We could not risk the equipment. Even if the police were called - where was the truck. How easy would it be to return the truck with the equipment smashed - Who could prove that these guys did it. So Bill had to knuckle under. But he didn't like it. He told me to get some counters and put people on the doors so we could get some kind of count as the people came in. We knew we would never get an accurate count from the Brothers. I sent one of the boys out to buy six simple counters and while that was taken care of the truck arrived and we started moving int. Surprisingly enough the Bully Boys helped. A good thing too. Time had gotten short and it was a new set up.

...The three boys had been told of the problem. They were angry that Bill had been so foolish as to make a deal with a proven cheat. They were angry that they would not get a rightful split of the extra ticket income. What may have been the worst was the ransoming of the equipment. They had been forced to play - or else."

[kristyob]

p.s. My brother had tickets for this show but my mom wouldn't let him go because he was only 15!!

[glasstecwindows]

ppl asumed they could sit when they bought a ticket for the train. but the judge said that you're paying for transpotation from one point to another, and not for a seat.