Recording process

[ensenada]

how did the doors (and most bands of that era) record their music for albums? you see in some of the doors docu stuff that they are all in the studio playing at the ame time and jim is in an alcove singing away. did they actually play at the same time (all members) and record whilst jim was singing. or did the individual band members play and it was put together afterwards like today?

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

I guess it depended on how much backing they got from a record company....
Elektra were very good for artists and took a lot of trouble with the recording of albums.
Holzman recruited a lot of talented people and most talented was obviously Rothchild.
I think both Paul and Jac wanted to capture the rawness of The Doors so the first album was done with as much low tech as posible. The band just playing and Paul recording it. Then he took the tracks he had recorded and edited them into the best form possible.
It was only after the debut that they began to experiment though to give The Doors due when they recorded LA Woman they deliberately used 8 track when they had access to 16 tracks. Dumbing down but what a masterpiece because of it....
You should seek out Follow The Music Jacs Elektra history for info on how the recording was done and also this article Stuart found about Strange days is interesting....

Technical article on"Strange days" album

[jym]

Well, I know that for WTMO they recorded the instrumental first & then Jim came in & did the vocals, maybe it depended on if/when Jim showed up???

[ensenada]

I love the fact that LA woman was recorded in a house, whilst jim sang in the bathroom. excellent! which house was it again, i forgot? this obvioulsy helped with the raw sound qualities of the album. a unique album from a unique band.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

The album was recorded above thier own office in what came to be known as The Doors Workshop....
pretty inspired considering what came out...

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

There was of course the legendary tale of when Jim did not turn up for a session during Strange Days and Ray Manzarek filled in for him on vocals.
Jim turned up next day and nailed the song but what happened to the tape with Ray is not known.
Most probably wiped but would it not be something special if that did reappear.
WTMO with Screaming Ray Daniels on vocal.
As we used to say in the 70s (long before Rodney from Fools & Horses)
Cozmic!

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

One interesting aspect of The Doors recording process was how they utilised the new technology.
The debut album was recorded in a 4 track studio.
Strange Days began as a 4 track but then the studio was upgraded to 8 track.
The difference between the 4 and 8 obvious.
By the time LA Woman came along The Doors had access to 16 track technology but deliberately downgraded their options by recording in their Workshop Office studio.
The result was less technology more heart.
It does show that Paul Rothchild and his tyrannical approach to recording that reared it's head during the Soft parade sessions was not that effective as he produced The Doors most mediocre album the 4 Door line up ever recorded using the available technology in 68/69 whilst The Doors without him made a rock classic in their own workspace using less rather than more.
Interesting!

[wplj]

I'm not for certain, but I think they tracked their albums live in the studio, with Jim singing ... once a basic track was achieved, they then overdubbed stuff and probably had Jim re-do his vox. Most 60's groups recorded this way. I still think it's the best way to do it. Even if it's with a click track, record the whole group live and then add/replace stuff as needed. Get the "live" vibe as much as possible. A smokin' basic track = a smokin' master!

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

They did this for the debut and LAW as far as I know but not sure they employed this technique always.
They certainly did not on TSP and WFTS has information of the normal recording methods with music tracks being put down and then Jim's vocals over the top.

I think it would be hard to say most groups did this but I am sure some did. It is a cheaper way to record an album that is for sure.
Jac began recording 'studio' albums live when he began Elektra so I am sure he was cool with this technique.

The Doors did it for the first album as that was the way they were most comfortable with as they were relatively new to the studio. Rothchild saw this and let them do it that way as if they were playing in a room to an audience.
For Strange Days there was a new technology with 8 track studio so more experimentation was employed and that involved time and method rather than a live feel.

[wplj]

All the alternate takes on the 40th Anniversary CDs sound essentially live in the studio to me ... Why bother overdubbing on alternates. You wait until you get a master and then build on that.

Also, the alternate of Touch Me on TSP is interesting as it sounds like an unedited, work in progress version of the master. The giveaway is the sax solo by Curtis Amy. It is exactly the same as the issued master. He wouldn't have played the same thing twice.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Well possibly they are but we know TSP was not recorded 'live' as it took 9 months and a million takes to sort that out.
SD was done using various tricks in the studio such as backwards piano and drums.
We know WTMO had at least one take with Ray singing and HL used a gang of passers by to do the screaming.
Of course it depends on your definition of the word 'live.
Recording in the studio is 'live' as the musicians are there recording the music.
Were the drumss, keyboard and guitar in action at the same time?
Sometimes probably yes but 8 tracks allows you to do things you can't do with 4 tracks so recording another guitar over the original is now possible etc.
Did the band do all the albums the way they did the first and LAW?
Probably no.
Did the musical side record as a unit or as seperate entities?
Proabably a bit of both.
Unfortunately one of the problems of The Doors is that they make so much out of Jim Morrison they spend an inordiante amount of time spouting crap about the crazy things he did and have never really spoken much about what they did in the studio.
A few of us tried to interest Densmore on his forum in sharing his recollections of the studio but that was a waste of time as he never really joined in apart from the odd time and never really told us much.

Jul 21, 2011 6:44:44 GMT wplj said:

Also, the alternate of Touch Me on TSP is interesting as it sounds like an unedited, work in progress version of the master. The giveaway is the sax solo by Curtis Amy. It is exactly the same as the issued master. He wouldn't have played the same thing twice.

Well if it is an alternative take (and it is described as Take 3) then he MUST have played the same thing twice or else it would not be an alternative take. If it is just the take on the album then it isn't an alternative take just the same thing before they tarted it up. (this stuff boggles the mind )

Also bear in mind Rothchild was very good.

If he could cut up the AL material and make it sound like a real live concert then why could he not take Amy's solo from say take 3 and stick it on take 96 and make it sound like one take.

Once again it all depends on how you define 'live' in the studio.
The way the band did LAW was different to the way the band did TSP. We know that because it's well documented that Rothchild drove them all mental during TSP with endless takes of intruments and vocals. So the idea that all the tracks were recorded 'live' and were essentially ONE take with a few overdubs does not add up.

[wplj]

I am sure there are edits of basic tracks. All I am saying is that they BASIC tracks (ie: the rhythm section: guitar, bass, drums, keys) were probably all done "live." Rothchild would then edit takes together as needed (if needed) to form complete takes, which would then be post-produced (ie: adding/replacing instruments, adding Jim's vox, etc.

All due respect, but I guarantee you Curts Amy would not have played the same solo twice. He may have used some of the same phrases, etc, but the exact same solo twice, no way.

I like hearing multiple takes of tunes to see how they got there in the end ... buy usually only once! Doesn't usually stand up to repeated listening!

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Jul 21, 2011 7:50:22 GMT wplj said:

All due respect, but I guarantee you Curts Amy would not have played the same solo twice. He may have used some of the same phrases, etc, but the exact same solo twice, no way.

Curtis Amy was a session man and would do exactly what he was told to do in the studio or he would be out on the street on his arce pronto.
Also Paul was scary and I bet Amy would not go up against him.
Paul probably gave him the respect he was due as a well established jazzer but the idea Amy was in charge during TSP session is not sustainable as he was an employee there to do a job defined by the producer.
Which meant if Paul said play 'exactly' the same solo again he would play 'exactly' the same solo again as this was his bread and butter.

I am sure Paul would build a track up from a firm foundation of an instrument or several instruments and also that what you say was used as well.
The point I am making is that Paul was not the sort of guy who favoured a 'live' feel. TSP has been well documented as endless takes and monotonously playing the same piece of music again and again.
Densmore cites an example of having to play the same drumbeats for Paul.
A lot of fans have that idea of the Doors playing 'live' in the studio all the time.
It's part of the Doors Myth.
1st and 6th yes without any doubt.
But 2,3,4, and 5 probably a bit of both and a lot more of the other.
Paul was a control freak in the studio. My bet is that he did it his way and that was not their way.

I can listen to these other takes and enjoy the shit out of them even with repeated listenings.
Moonlight Drive the best example of how the song evolved from 1965 to 1966 and then 1967.
Pity there was not more like MD.