Rock God Or False Prophet NME July 5 2011

[darkstar3]

NME Magazine
The Ultimate Guide To The Week In Music
In this week's NME... (05/07/11)




Genius or fraud? Poet or prick? The Doors' frontman Jim Morrison is the most divisive character in rock history. To mark the 40th anniversary of his death, we delve deep into the myth of The Lizard King, dissecting his lyrics, reliving his booze fuelled existence and reassesing his best work.

So what's the verdict? That's up to you...



www.nme.com/blog/index.php?blog=8&p=10677&title=the_mystery_of_jim_morrison_unravelled_i_9&more=1&c=1

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

This folks is the cumulative effect of 40 years of Ray Manzarek's mouth and all those people who were crawling round Ray's arce in Paris need to wake up to this.
Jim Morrison became a legend due to death and the mystery surrounding that along with a legacy of good music.
He is not remembered as a writer because for 40 years ray and to a lesser effect John and Robby have portrayed him as a crazy drunk.
He was not considered a pretentious prat in the early 70s because the Chicago Mouth saw no great profit in Morrison then. Of course he did indeed utilise his supposed friendship with Jim as nobody had a clue who he was then.
He has lifted himself into the minor reaches of the limelight by standing on the shoulders of a dead genius and using the light from that corpse to seek a bit of shine.
Over the last 30/35 years Ray has told the world about his imaginary friend Jim Morrison and totally wrecked any chance of that 'friend' ever being recognised as a artist.
Of course Jim got drunk and behaved like an arce but so did lots of rockstars then and none of them in death are so reviled as Jim Morrison.
Why is this?
Because none of them had a keyboard player called Ray Manzarek.
Of course Ray was a friend of Jim for a few years. Probably during that time they were pretty close. But then Jim realised what a cunt Ray was and that friendship was over. ray just became a guy Jim worked with. We all have had them. You are friendly enough at work and say hi if you meet outside work but you don't wanna be with the guy anymore than you have to.
Jim and Ray from mid 1968 onwards.
So Legend? Yes.
Loser? No
Poet? Maybe one day yes as he did have potential but was robbed of the chance due to death.
Prick? No NME as the prick was that tall one in the suit and he is the reason you even ask these questions.

[darkstar3]

Jul 6, 2011 11:55:46 GMT TheWallsScreamedPoetry said:

This folks is the cumulative effect of 40 years of Ray Manzarek's mouth and all those people who were crawling round Ray's arce in Paris need to wake up to this.
Jim Morrison became a legend due to death and the mystery surrounding that along with a legacy of good music.
He is not remembered as a writer because for 40 years ray and to a lesser effect John and Robby have portrayed him as a crazy drunk.
He was not considered a pretentious prat in the early 70s because the Chicago Mouth saw no great profit in Morrison then. Of course he did indeed utilise his supposed friendship with Jim as nobody had a clue who he was then.
He has lifted himself into the minor reaches of the limelight by standing on the shoulders of a dead genius and using the light from that corpse to seek a bit of shine.
Over the last 30/35 years Ray has told the world about his imaginary friend Jim Morrison and totally wrecked any chance of that 'friend' ever being recognised as a artist.
Of course Jim got drunk and behaved like an arce but so did lots of rockstars then and none of them in death are so reviled as Jim Morrison.
Why is this?
Because none of them had a keyboard player called Ray Manzarek.
Of course Ray was a friend of Jim for a few years. Probably during that time they were pretty close. But then Jim realised what a cunt Ray was and that friendship was over. ray just became a guy Jim worked with. We all have had them. You are friendly enough at work and say hi if you meet outside work but you don't wanna be with the guy anymore than you have to.
Jim and Ray from mid 1968 onwards.
So Legend? Yes.
Loser? No
Poet? Maybe one day yes as he did have potential but was robbed of the chance due to death.
Prick? No NME as the prick was that tall one in the suit and he is the reason you even ask these questions.

Although I have not read this NME article I agree with what your saying. When you were in Paris and I was hunting down news stories about the 40th Anniversary I came across many articles in different languages that pointed to the fact of Manzarek keeping the myth going as to the possibility of Jim being alive.

Back when the "tribute act" act started in 2002 Manzarek had changed his story saying that Jim was dead to lure people to buy tickets to one of the "new Doors" performances. As time went on and Manzarek got more and more criticism for the tribute act his reaction was to label those fans not in agreement with him as not Doors fans but fans of Jim Morrison's leather pants.

Morrison Looms Large Over The Doors Revival
Bandmates Stare Down Detractors

Heath McCoy
Calgary Herald


Tuesday, July 19, 2005

"If you want to see Jim Morrison . . . die," deadpans Ray Manzarek, original keyboardist of The Doors, sick of defending himself for reforming the legendary California band without its dark, iconic frontman.

"Jim's dead. . . . But if you want to see a great band doing a great version of The Doors songs . . . come to (our) gig and enjoy the show."

What would he say to those denouncing The Doors fronted by Astbury?

"I would say 'F*** you, ' " he says dryly. "Oh, you can't put that in the paper, can you? OK, I would say, 'To heck with you. Go down to your demons.' "

Ray Manzarek opening new Doors
By MIKE BELL - Calgary Sun
July 23 2005

"They're not Doors fans," says Manzarek bluntly. "They're Jim Morrison, leather pants fans.

"It's the persona of Jim Morrison -- of, course, as Dionysus ...

"That's what they're worshipping, Dionysus, but of course they don't understand that."

And Manzarek doesn't understand it either.

"This is Jim, our buddy -- this is not God," says the 66-year-old of his friend oft remembered as the Lizard King.

jam.canoe.ca/Music/Artists/D/Doors_Of_The_21st_Century/2005/07/23/1144662.html

Source: Revolving Doors
By Rob Williams
Wed, July 28, 2004 - Winnipeg Sun News

Ray Manzarek: "If you're in love with Jim Morrison, not The Doors, don't come.

Stay home in a darkened room and light a candle and rub yourself in the private parts," he says, defending the new lineup.

www.canada.com/calgary/aroundtown/story.html?id=78972f2c-2ef1-417f-888e-566fee78a2

Long live the Lizard King
Two original Doors are back with a singer who looks and sounds eerily like Jim Morrison
By MIKE ROSS -- Edmonton Sun
July 24 2005

To those who scoff, Ray Manzarek has been honing a snappy retort through interview after interview. He refers to himself in the third person: "When Jim died, there should've been a joint suicide pact in which Ray (and fellow original Doors) Robby (Krieger) and John (Densmore) also died. That'd be bitchin'! Bitchin'! Yeah!"

He snaps off the audible sneer, "I don't think so, man! Jim's dead. You wanna see us play? Fine. Ray and Robby are going to play with Ian Astbury as the lead singer. You wanna see that? Fine.

"If it cheapens the image, don't come. Stay home with your picture of Jim and a little piece of leather and rub that piece of leather softly. Light a candle. And play a Doors record. Maybe you have a dayglo poster of Jim Morrison. Stay in your room and lock the doors. Don't come out. Don't come to our concert."

But if you do, he adds, you may be pleased with "really powerful playing." The new singer is gifted with what Manzarek calls "Morrisonesque" qualities: Dark, brooding, "shamanistic" and oh, yes, the small matter that Astbury looks and sings like the real Lizard King.

jam.canoe.ca/Music/Artists/D/Doors_Of_The_21st_Century/2005/07/24/1145148.html

Rolling Stone - The Week In Weird Column Includes Ray Manzarek
By: DAVID SPRAGUE
Posted Dec 03, 2004

Having apparently given up on his attempts to actually dig up the corpse of Jim Morrison, one-time Doors keyboardist Ray Manzarek has decided to simply insist that the ghost of his one-time bandmate will be joining him onstage whether or not anyone else is aware of it. The psilocybine-inclined ivory tinkler says that the Lizard King's spirit is set to hightail it out of his crypt to join in the festivities of at least one gig in Australia next February, since they worked so well together the last time Morrison visited from beyond the grave. Manzarek told Melbourne's Herald-Sun that "the last time we played Paris, oh my God, Jim was on stage with us. Jesus, you could feel him up there." We don't know about you, but hearing Morrison's name invoked along with the phrase "feel him up" strikes us as vaguely Batman and Robin-esque, if you get our drift . . .

www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_....gion=mainRegion


After the last appeal on the court case to the California Supreme Court (in which the case was rejected as the court did not agree to hear the argument), then Manzarek started with the Jim Morrison faked his death rumors again.

DENSMORE v. MANZAREK, ET
Case Number S164974 Court of Appeal District/Division: Second Appellate District, Div. 8
Court of Appeal Case Number: B186036 (lead)
B186037
B188708
Disposition: Affirmed in full
Disposition Date: 05/29/2008


THE POST CHRONICLE
Tittle-Tattle™
Published: Jul 5, 2008

THE DOORS RAY MANZAREK: JIM MORRISON DEATH 'MAY BE A FAKE'
by Staff

Rock legend Jim Morrison may be alive and living in the Seychelles, according to his former The Doors bandmate Ray Manzarek.

The Doors keyboardist admits he became suspicious after Morrison died as the enigmatic singer had discussed the possibility of faking his own death and going into hiding abroad.

In 1971, a year after the alleged discussion, Morrison was found dead in his Paris, France apartment after reportedly suffering a heart attack after a drugs binge.

And the bizarre circumstances of the tragic incident have led to continued speculation about whether the iconic rocker is still alive.

Manzarek tells Britain's Daily Mail newspaper, "I often wonder if his death has been an elaborate charade.

"Jim was a restless soul, always looking for something else in his life, and even six years of success - and excess - with The Doors hadn't been enough for him.

"A year earlier, he had shown me a brochure for the Seychelles and said, 'Wouldn't this be the perfect place to escape to if everyone believed you were dead?'. At the time, I never thought anything of it."

www.postchronicle.com/news/entertai...212156374.shtml

Prefix Magazine July 8 2008
News

Ray Manzarek Feeds Jim Morrison Rumors
July 8, 2008 3:29 p.m. by Jim Allen

It can't be easy being Ray Manzarek. Not only have recent years found the former Doors keyboardist leading what is essentially a Doors tribute band with various guest frontmen (how did this not become a reality show?), but a lawsuit from Doors drummer John Densmore legally prevented him from using the name of the group Manzarek founded. Plus he's had to look at Ian Astbury's leather-clad ass gyrating to the serpentine strains of The Doors hits on a regular basis. That's not good for anyone.

So, it's easy to forgive the beleaguered ivory-tickler for stirring up a little press with some fanciful musings about the current flesh-to-bone ratio of legendary Doors singer Jim Morrison. "I wonder if his death has been an elaborate charade," Manzarek said recently while doing press for his tour with Doors guitarist Robbie Krieger and ex-Fuel singer Brett Scallions (yep, that's right) as Riders on the Storm (not to be confused with the other Doors tribute band of the same name, which contains no original Doors members). Manzarek wondered aloud whether Morrison had faked his death and enjoyed an early, incognito retirement. If he wasn't dead before, surely the idea of the guy from Fuel taking his place will hasten his demise.

www.prefixmag.com/news/ray-manzarek-feeds-jim-morrison-rumors/19807/

After looking at the photos this past week of Manzarek at Jim Morrison's grave it is unfortunate that some one in attendance didn't throw Manzarek a shovel and persuade him to start digging that 9 feet of dirt to put to rest the myth that he started 40 years ago.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Exactly Sara.
When Ray was flogging Poet In Exile Jim was maybe alive.....'it could be fiction or it could be true' was the speil Ray used.
Then when he was flogging astbury Jim was dead as he did not want any competition from a maybe Morrison.
Doors fans really do not dare think about this shit as the answers are not palatable.
Jim Morrison deserved better than US!
On Sunday Ray Manzarek did the rock equivalent of coming round your house and shitting on your settee.

[darkstar3]

Jul 6, 2011 13:06:35 GMT TheWallsScreamedPoetry said:

Exactly Sara.
When Ray was flogging Poet In Exile Jim was maybe alive.....'it could be fiction or it could be true' was the speil Ray used.
Then when he was flogging astbury Jim was dead as he did not want any competition from a maybe Morrison.
Doors fans really do not dare think about this shit as the answers are not palatable.
Jim Morrison deserved better than US!
On Sunday Ray Manzarek did the rock equivalent of coming round your house and shitting on your settee.

I would have liked to have seen a hand come out of the grave and grab Manzarek similar to the last scene of the "Carrie" movie. That would have had a profound effect on that old fossil.

Jim Morrison honored on anniversary of his death
Published - Jul 03 2011 09:17AM EST (AP)

On Sunday, band members Ray Manzarek, the keyboardist, and guitarist Robby Krieger, lit candles at the grave of Morrison, who was known by the nickname the "lizard king."

www.rr.com/entertainment/topic/article/rr/7392520/45304678/Jim_Morrison_honored_on_anniversary_of_his_death/full/

According to the Associated Press story which began circulation through the world news on July 3 2011, it is pointed out that Manzarek and Krieger lit candles of their own while spending time at Morrison's grave. Considering what Manzarek suggested for Jim Morrison fans to do in the past and I quote, "Stay home in a darkened room and light a candle and rub yourself in the private parts," his gesture on Sunday is proof of another hypocritical act relating to his own narcissism.

[darkstar3]

New Musical Express
Jim Morrison - Poet Or Prick? You Decide
By Jamie Fullerton
Posted on 06/07/11 at 12:45:32 pm


In the new issue of NME there are large lines being both snorted and drawn in the sand - the former happens with Viva Brother in Ibiza, the latter over the thorny subject of one Mr Jim Morrison, his legend and legacy as we mark the 40th anniversary of his death.

Opinion of the late Doors frontman today is about as divided as The Strokes' current dressing room set-up. Some cling to the notion that he was the artist of a generation and looked considerably better than Johnny Borrell when he took his shirt off, while others brand him an overrated faux-poet who shouldn't be considered more culturally significant than the Pot Noodles he ranks alongside in the student cliché stakes.

We've got two writers to slug it out in the issue – Gavin Haynes bigs up the Lizard King while James Lee argues that describing him as a poet is "like calling someone who picks their nose and eats it an epicurian."

My personal experiences with The Doors began in the most hideously clichéd of environments; I was introduced to their music quite literally sat beneath a Che Guevara poster in a friend's room at university while suspect odours wafted from the roll-up he was puffing on. But I have to say, even when the haze of the situation was lifted (we probably headed out to steal a traffic cone or something) I was still impressed with Jim's meandering prose, and briefly fell in love with their debut album as well as ‘LA Woman’ before moving on to an obsession with Love – their Los Angeles rivals who, for me, held far more mystique and in Arthur Lee boasted a more complex and genuinely off-kilter genius frontman.

But that's just me. So, what's your verdict? Jim Morrison: Legend or loser? Poet or prick? Lizard King or repellant reptile?

Type, click, and let all be known.

(Webpage link includes 'video' interviews and fan commentary)

www.nme.com/blog/index.php?blog=10&p=10681&title=jim_morrison_poet_or_prick_you_decide&more=1&c=1

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

I have just read NME in the ASDA and I can say without rancour that I wanted to weep at what I was reading.
They slaughtered Jim Morrison in that mag and the pretence of actually asking a question was exposed totally after the opening paragraphs.
Jim Morrison was Judged, Judyed and executed (Hot Fuzz joke) by NME for things he never said and claims he never made.
He never claimed he was Dionysus.
He never claimed he was a Shaman
He never claimed he was the new Shelley.
Ray Manzarek made those claims.
Of course he discussed these things. he was an intelligent guy who read a lot, and more importantly, understood what he read.
Jim always tried to pass it off as ironic but the irony is Ray saw the dollar value of it all and did not give a fuck about his so called friend.
I was 8 when the Beatles came along. I have been brought up on rock since even before then. I make no claims of expertise simply say I have nearly 50 years experience of listening to rock music.
In that time I have heard the lot. Good, bad and fucking evilly awful.
But I have never come across a singer/writer/poet (wannabee or otherwise) who has gotten such an unfair and such a bad rap.
Why is this? That’s the question.
So John Lennon and Bob Dylan were lyrical geniuses and Morrison a pretentious knob?
Of course not all three were neither of these things.
They could all write shit.
So Doors songs are all juvenile crap and The Beatles rock whiz kids.
Of course they weren’t
In all my life I have never quite heard a band like The Doors.
Some came near but nothing like them.
I was not brought up on Jim Morrison and did not even know his name till nearly 1970. Just heard some of his music and liked it.
I had not a clue about the guy until after he died.
I was a Brit and The Doors were fuck all here. But I liked them and they became my fave band. On the music not the sensation.
Of course Jim could be an arce. We all can be. But he was no worse than many, many rock stars of his era.
Shit compared to Zeppelin The Doors were Mormons.
But Zeppelin are considered the best band in the world and The Doors pretentious prats. Really?
I love Zepp like I love many bands but they wrote some crap as well as The Doors did.
The Doors left us some of the greatest rock music ever.
Jim Morrison was one of the greatest rock front men ever and a great writer of rock songs. Yes his poetry was not great but now and then he wrote some profound stuff.
But he never claimed to be a Great Poet.
He knew his limitations and how lucky he was in being recognised in poetry circles. He was modest about his skill NOT arrogant.
So why is it that a mag like NME would judge Jim on things he never said or did or claimed?
And why is it The Doors garner hate 40 years on instead of the respect they deserve for being a damn good rock band?
The answers are simple enough.
Because only Jim had ray Manzarek playing keys for him.
Ray, who is the opportunist equivalent of Egyptian Tomb Robbers, has stolen all of Jim’s jewels and left a 40 year trail of destruction behind him.
Jimbo the drunk, the rock God Dionysus.
The Shaman and the Lizard King.
All this comes from Ray.
Jim tried to pass it off as a joke, not to be taken seriously and ironic.
Ray saw $$$ in it so ran with it and basically trashed Jim Morrison’s name forever.
Doors fans are blind sheep if they cannot see this.
Read this rubbish article and ask why this is so?
Nobody destroyed Jimi Hendrix last year on his 40th.
Criticism is one thing but this was an axe attack.
Jim had a lot of faults. He was violent to women for which he deserved an ass kicking, he could be a drunken obnoxious twat when he felt like it. He did a lot that deserves scorn for.
But he was a Poet.
He saw rock as an opportunity to develop his poetry. He knew his limitations and strove to hone his craft.
To NME he was a pretentious rock star who wanted to be a poet.
To me he was a poet who never wanted to be a rock star.
Give that some thought.
Reading through this NME bullshit made me sad to be a Doors fan.
40 years on Jim Morrison deserved better than his three band mates.
He deserved better than US his fans.
Maybe Clio will be fairer to him but all of us together have done a piss poor job.
There were lots of things he was but also lots he wasn’t but thank to the Chicago Mouth the product of 40 years is a few pages in NME.
And that makes me NOT angry just fucking incredibly SAD!

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Jul 6, 2011 13:48:16 GMT darkstar3 said:

I would have liked to have seen a hand come out of the grave and grab Manzarek similar to the last scene of the "Carrie" movie. That would have had a profound effect on that old fossil.

Now that would have been top drawer entertainment

[wplj]

I've always said Ray was a twat who loves the sound of his own voice.

Regardless of the situation ... it is what it is ... let's just be thankful for that band and the time they spent together and the music they made. The music is still here and if that isn't enough to silence the haters, then too bad for them. They are missing out ...

Also, the writer of the "hate" piece in that issue took issue with the band not having a bassist, which caused their sound to have "no bottom." He has obviously not listened to ANY of the studio albums (session bassists) or even the live recordings (Ray's keyboard bass, which had enough bottom for me ... I ought to know a thing or two as well ... I'm a drummer [in a Doors tribute band, no less, ha ha ha!])

Anyway, sorry for the tangent ... It does kind of suck to be a Doors fan these days ... but at least there's a lot of us ... stick together, people!

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Jul 7, 2011 13:03:51 GMT wplj said:

Anyway, sorry for the tangent ... It does kind of suck to be a Doors fan these days ... but at least there's a lot of us ... stick together, people!

It's never sucked for me to be a Doors fan
I love the band....always have...always will.
The hate is nothing new simply the venom and the vitriol are more powerful because of 40 years of Ray Manzarek.
I along with a few other now make it my mission in life to illuminate Doors fans on the subject of Ray Manzarek.
We have made a decent start here.
He deserves to be exposed for what he is.
The other two arceholes bear a responsibility for this piece of trash but Manzarek has been the major catalyst for the decades of Morrison negativity.
He is also the reason we Doors fans will never stick together as he was quite happy to stand and watch The Doors community fracture beyond any hope of repair while he lied his arce of in court trying to steal The Doors name.
The man was NOT Jim Morrison's friend.
You don't sue a friend a month after he died for the money you lent him just before. Especially if you are raking in 100s of thousands of dollars a year because of him.
You don't persecute his girlfriend after she inherits the debt possibly driving her into her grave.
You don't travel 5000 miles to the city your friend is buried in and then fail to even make a trip to where he's buried citing some lying bullshit about fearing for your life from his fans.
You don't continually try to sell him out for 40 years claiming that he would be perfectly cool when the only comment he ever had on the subject was that he was NOT perfectly cool about it.
You don't manipulate his death to suit whatever bullshit you are selling that week.
You don't spend 40 years laying the blame for the fact your band went tits up on a dead man whilst raking in millions from product plastered with an image he hated.
But of course you do if you are Ray Manzarek.
Anyone want an education on Ray Manzarek then this is a good place to start.
It is what it is because of one greedy lying scumbag and that sadly is something I will never be greatful for.
I will read his obituary with particular delight and I have never said that about anyone.

[wplj]

Man, tell us how you really feel!

Seriously, I do agree ... Always thought Ray was full of shit ... I was a Doors fan in high school and by college had disowned them as I thought Morrison was full of shit, etc, etc.

Sold all my CDs, didn't listen for years ... always thought the other 3 were a tight band (you cannot deny that, regardless of how you may feel about any of them), but thought Morrison was a drunken bum and a mediocre poet at best ...

Only after picking up, on a whim, a copy of The Future Starts Here: The Essential Doors Hits over a year ago, did I realise how good they really were and that Morrison's lyrics, though sometimes a little juvenile (IMHO), weren't as bad as I remembered ... I then re-purchased In Concert, a CD I remember LOVING as a kid ... and it was still a motherfucker! By pure serendipity, Grant called me up and here I am today in a Doors tribute band ... never would have believed it a few years ago!

Only now do I realise what a cunt Manzarek is and has been. I just didn't realise how deep all this went ...

Anyway .... there it is ... a lost sheep, back in the fold, me!

I dig this forum ... must thank Grant for hipping me to it!

Cheers,
Jason

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Most Doors fans choose to be blind and deaf to what is the darker side to The Doors. I was like all the rest until Darkstar clued me in.
Now I try to clue others in and along with her we try to post the facts about these people.
It's not a secret but people have to open their eyes to actually see. There is a ton of stuff here that tells a different tale to the flowery tale most fans think is the truth.

Jul 8, 2011 8:03:03 GMT wplj said:

always thought the other 3 were a tight band (you cannot deny that, regardless of how you may feel about any of them), but thought Morrison was a drunken bum and a mediocre poet at best ...

You seem to misunderstand what I say as I don't deny anything about the band The Doors.
They have been my fave band for 40 years and are the greatest rock band that has ever existed as far as I am concerned. John, Ray and Robby are superb musicans and Densmore is a half decent human being as well. Krieger is a muppet and Manzarek is as you say a cunt. But as a band the word 'tight' does not do them justice. On stage they seemed telepathic in their early days. What a sight it must have been to see.

I was like you for 30 years and thought Jim's writings drivel but liked it when he read his poetry. Last 10 years I have managed to see it differently and he did write some good stuff, even some profound stuff. Still wrote some shit as well ............but name a poet who didn't?
Most of the stuff we see is incomplete and Morrison may have thought that was shite I must throw that out when I get back from Paris. We just don't know.

As far as drunkenness goes it's a tad unfair to judge the guy as we don't know all the facts behind the change in him from 68 onwards. We discuss this stuff here on several threads.
He was not always drunk but he was either an apprentice alcoholic or had graduated.
But his performances were affected most in 69/70 and there is a good case to argue as to why this happened.
It could have been so different but he was the only one ploughing the artistic furrow by that time.

Here are a few interesting threads about what I mean by the dark side.

The Doors unhinged..Soft Parade cause & effect

When You’re Strange: Critique?

When The Music's Over

Earthquake in LA-The Doors trial 2003-2008


Jim gets sued by The Doors: when he is dead

[wplj]

Thanks for those links. I shall look at them in due course.

Cheers,
Jason

[darkstar3]

Jul 8, 2011 8:20:15 GMT TheWallsScreamedPoetry said:

Most Doors fans choose to be blind and deaf to what is the darker side to The Doors. I was like all the rest until Darkstar clued me in.
Now I try to clue others in and along with her we try to post the facts about these people.
It's not a secret but people have to open their eyes to actually see. There is a ton of stuff here that tells a different tale to the flowery tale most fans think is the truth.

Jul 8, 2011 8:03:03 GMT wplj said:

always thought the other 3 were a tight band (you cannot deny that, regardless of how you may feel about any of them), but thought Morrison was a drunken bum and a mediocre poet at best ...

You seem to misunderstand what I say as I don't deny anything about the band The Doors.
They have been my fave band for 40 years and are the greatest rock band that has ever existed as far as I am concerned. John, Ray and Robby are superb musicans and Densmore is a half decent human being as well. Krieger is a muppet and Manzarek is as you say a cunt. But as a band the word 'tight' does not do them justice. On stage they seemed telepathic in their early days. What a sight it must have been to see.

I was like you for 30 years and thought Jim's writings drivel but liked it when he read his poetry. Last 10 years I have managed to see it differently and he did write some good stuff, even some profound stuff. Still wrote some shit as well ............but name a poet who didn't?
Most of the stuff we see is incomplete and Morrison may have thought that was shite I must throw that out when I get back from Paris. We just don't know.

As far as drunkenness goes it's a tad unfair to judge the guy as we don't know all the facts behind the change in him from 68 onwards. We discuss this stuff here on several threads.
He was not always drunk but he was either an apprentice alcoholic or had graduated.
But his performances were affected most in 69/70 and there is a good case to argue as to why this happened.
It could have been so different but he was the only one ploughing the artistic furrow by that time.

Here are a few interesting threads about what I mean by the dark side.

The Doors unhinged..Soft Parade cause & effect

When You’re Strange: Critique?

When The Music's Over

Earthquake in LA-The Doors trial 2003-2008


Jim gets sued by The Doors: when he is dead

Alex, when we met each other 11 years ago you were, like now sharing valuable Doors/Morrison information with other fans.

As you know I've been collecting stuff for, well almost 30 years now and I had all this stuff and wanted to share it with other fans on line so I have been doing just that for over a decade.

I love Jim's lyrics as they are universal. I liked the fact that he lived like he wanted too and he was the person he wanted to be up until things started falling apart in the Summer 1968. The Doors music is timeless but Morrison's lyrics goes deeper than any music or arrangement set to them. I believe everyone reads the lyrics differently giving them many meanings. It all depends on how you fit the words to what has happened or is happening in your own life.

In 1980 I went to Pere Lachaise and came across a grave with no headstone. I read NOHGOA when it was released and a few other books on the market and of course the scattered articles about the band. I read the interviews that came along after Jim died and they seemed not to answer questions but cause me to ask more. Like you I was under the impression according to the interviews I had read that Manzarek and Morrison were two people much alike, as Ray wanted people to believe and then I met him.

After I met Manzarek in person in 1995, that pretty much cemented what I thought of the guy as a person. I told him there was no way he was Jim Morrison's best friend. He lives in a fantasy world, choosing to live through another person, in this case Morrison, never going out on the edge himself, never taking any chances to live his life on his own. Instead he lives through Morrison, making up stories that have turned into the myth that fans so desperately try to crack open to find the real truth. In the end all these wild stories amount to is a rise in press coverage and a higher than average deposit to his bank account. Deception and Greed have made this man a millionaire. I read articles everyday where fans now realize just how far Manzarek has gone and now a majority speaks out about this very fact.

The Official Doors Forum went so far as to edit, delete and banish any members who did not conform to the fantasy world in which Manzarek revolves in. This part of history is truly unbelievable but it is a true story.

My favorite interview with Jim is the one by Lizzie James in 1968 because it reveals a lot and when you partner it with the myths that Manzarek has conjured up over the years you can see just what a fake this man has become. It's sad to live your live through another person, wishing you could be that person and do the things that person did and most importantly get the attention from others for these accomplishments you feel you have made in your life. It's too bad that Manzarek doesn't live for himself instead of through a man who has been dead 40 years.

This theory goes against the principals for which the Doors as a band once stood for and as time goes by the true meanings get more and more diluted. Only when you look back at the articles and interviews from the 60s do you come to understand what this band was truly trying to accomplish. It is those old accomplishments that a majority of fans look for today. Just compare the past to the present and it becomes crystal clear what motivates Manzarek not to live for himself but on the shoulders of a dead man.

As time goes on we come across more and more evidence that puts distance between Jim and his band mates. Who knows if he would have left the band in '68, as John Densmore has suggested maybe he would have lived longer. Events put in a time line certainly point to the fact that Jim had a better chance to start a new career in '68. No matter how bad Jim felt at the time he wanted out of the band he reconsidered and stuck it out because of his loyalty. What did that loyalty get him in the end?

I've always said, all I can do is share information with other fans and it is up to each individual person to choose what they do and don't believe.

[kawaton]

Jul 8, 2011 12:42:31 GMT darkstar3 said:

Jul 8, 2011 8:20:15 GMT TheWallsScreamedPoetry said:

I've always said, all I can do is share information with other fans and it is up to each individual person to choose what they do and don't believe.

...and THANKYOU for that.
Im well and truly on board.
I'm going on the campaign trail, armed with your info. It might only reach my small circle of friends but people need to know.

Hopefully one day, the next NME editor or the next budding film maker might tell a different story

[darkstar3]

Jul 8, 2011 14:11:33 GMT kawaton said:

Jul 8, 2011 12:42:31 GMT darkstar3 said:

Jul 8, 2011 8:20:15 GMT TheWallsScreamedPoetry said:

I've always said, all I can do is share information with other fans and it is up to each individual person to choose what they do and don't believe.

...and THANKYOU for that.
Im well and truly on board.
I'm going on the campaign trail, armed with your info. It might only reach my small circle of friends but people need to know.

Hopefully one day, the next NME editor or the next budding film maker might tell a different story

Thank you for your kind words. You have to choose what you do and don't believe and form your own opinion. All we can do on this forum is to post information. Your more than welcome to share the parts of it you deem worthy with other fans.

Here's the place to start:

newdoorstalk.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=calendarviewall

[kawaton]

Excellent, Thanks.
I've held strong opinions for a long time about Ray, but i have not had a great deal of info to back it up.
The other forums i have frequented, as you know, pick and choose what is allowed to be said, and who can say it.
Whilst i was aware of this forum's existence, i hadn't visited (it was on my list tho)
Im glad Alex encouraged me to drop in.

I'll start at Jan 1st 1946.....i may be a while