"Songs By The Doors"

[othercircles]

Interesting to note... for the first 3 albums.. it said "Music By The Doors" and then after the "Tell All The People" issue it got split up into saying either Krieger.. or Morrison-Krieger.. or whatever. Then with LA Woman they went back to "music by the doors"...

Now... with Other Voices it said... "All songs by Krieger Manzarek Densmore"......... indictating that same unity.. but possibly already feeling (unwarrented) guilt over calling it the doors... then with "Full Circle" we once again see the credits split up saying Manzarek Krieger.. or Kreiger Manzarek.. or either one of the names... or in the case of Piano Bird "Densmore Conrad" This to me reinforces the idea that there was a split between Robbie and Ray over the direction of the band.. they were seperate musicians with seperate egos.... which is fine.. but its just another piece of ammo for my theory about the breakup being mostly unrelated to Jims passing.

Discuss!

[jym]

Of course the final break-up of The Doors was related to Morrison's death. Jim Morrison was the artistic center and soul of the band. Sure Jim kept them professionally and personally on (the) edge, but it also kept them at the creative edge. Sure Robby wrote most of the 'hit' songs of The Doors but for the most part he was taking his lead from Morrison and his themes i.e. Robby said if wanted to compete with Morrison's songs he had to write songs about earth, fire, or water, and that's mostly what his songs ARE about. I know you might say this is a bastardization of something in Oliver Stone's movie but it is also an artistic truth. Also, since Morrison's demise where are all the hits Robby should have been writing since Jim's death. No where, because Jim isn't there to push them to greater creativity.

Without Morrison the last two albums seem flaccid and without soul or a center. Sure, Jim was a pain in the ass, but he also took them to artistic heights they never would have reached without him, and haven't since, as a matter of fact since closing The Doors after Full Circle their best ideas have been to invoke Jim to reach the greater audience they had.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

'We came to London to find a vocalist and as we started jamming we realised more than ever that when you have a good professional singer who can do with his voice what someone else can do with an instrument how much more fluid everything is......but that led to writing problems. Everyone was doing songs ...myself included....and all of Ray's were real personal so it finally got to the point where it was obvious that he was the only one who could sing them because they were very philosophical, cosmic whatever. So how could another singer relate to something that was so personal? So when we first came over we were still together...sort of...but when we realised how very different our musical directions were heading...Ray split back home!"
John Densmore 1977

I find that quote interesting as The Doors had actually been moving in different musical directions since 1968 at least........WFTS a prime example with Morrison trying to get COTL to work and then promoting the idea of poetry between the musical tracks......then add to that Ray's own admission that 'they' re-recorded Hello I Love You with a view to scoring a hit single which i am sure was not that high on Morrison's agenda.

The rift from Buick hardly helped and the Soft Parade album simply adds to the argument that The Doors were all pulling in different directions..............its a testament to them that they managed to pull together for Morrison Hotel and LA Woman.
Once Morrison was gone the divisions simply became too wide and after Other Voices beyond hope of ever closing them.

The Butts Band and Golden Scarab albums of 1974 show how wide that division was and I agree that the death of The Doors was not completely because of Morrison's passing........I for one believe the band was dead as soon as LA Woman was recorded......Morrison had left and they had no record contract........Holzman probably only gave them an extension out of a mixture of guilt and sympathy.
The Doors deserve credit for carrying on till 1973 and producing two albums....one of which was good.........but even if they had managed to get a new singer I doubt it would have lasted much past one album as the egos would have reared their ugly heads.........
The band started off with such high hopes but artistic freedom and record company expectaions don't go well together.............product is always more important than art..........even today The Doors we know in the 21st century care more about selling stuff than thier own History......
The search for the next $$$ always more important than the artistic legacy.........
Which is why so many bands broke up back in the 70s and why 30 years on the members of those bands are nothing without the names.............

[othercircles]

Nice post Alex.. yea i mean.. its crazy to think... Jim died.. they tried for the heck of it and failed.. the end. Thats what Ray wants to say now and its just foolish to believe it. I'm glad John spoke up in 77 as Ray was already on the bullshit wagon back then.

[ensenada]

jym said:

Of course the final break-up of The Doors was related to Morrison's death. Jim Morrison was the artistic center and soul of the band. Sure Jim kept them professionally and personally on (the) edge, but it also kept them at the creative edge. Sure Robby wrote most of the 'hit' songs of The Doors but for the most part he was taking his lead from Morrison and his themes i.e. Robby said if wanted to compete with Morrison's songs he had to write songs about earth, fire, or water, and that's mostly what his songs ARE about. I know you might say this is a bastardization of something in Oliver Stone's movie but it is also an artistic truth. Also, since Morrison's demise where are all the hits Robby should have been writing since Jim's death. No where, because Jim isn't there to push them to greater creativity.

Without Morrison the last two albums seem flaccid and without soul or a center. Sure, Jim was a pain in the ass, but he also took them to artistic heights they never would have reached without him, and haven't since, as a matter of fact since closing The Doors after Full Circle their best ideas have been to invoke Jim to reach the greater audience they had.

this is spot on for my jym!

[ensenada]

admin said:

'We came to London to find a vocalist and as we started jamming we realised more than ever that when you have a good professional singer who can do with his voice what someone else can do with an instrument how much more fluid everything is......but that led to writing problems. Everyone was doing songs ...myself included....and all of Ray's were real personal so it finally got to the point where it was obvious that he was the only one who could sing them because they were very philosophical, cosmic whatever. So how could another singer relate to something that was so personal? So when we first came over we were still together...sort of...but when we realised how very different our musical directions were heading...Ray split back home!"
John Densmore 1977

I find that quote interesting as The Doors had actually been moving in different musical directions since 1968 at least........WFTS a prime example with Morrison trying to get COTL to work and then promoting the idea of poetry between the musical tracks......then add to that Ray's own admission that 'they' re-recorded Hello I Love You with a view to scoring a hit single which i am sure was not that high on Morrison's agenda.

The rift from Buick hardly helped and the Soft Parade album simply adds to the argument that The Doors were all pulling in different directions..............its a testament to them that they managed to pull together for Morrison Hotel and LA Woman.
Once Morrison was gone the divisions simply became too wide and after Other Voices beyond hope of ever closing them.

The Butts Band and Golden Scarab albums of 1974 show how wide that division was and I agree that the death of The Doors was not completely because of Morrison's passing........I for one believe the band was dead as soon as LA Woman was recorded......Morrison had left and they had no record contract........Holzman probably only gave them an extension out of a mixture of guilt and sympathy.
The Doors deserve credit for carrying on till 1973 and producing two albums....one of which was good.........but even if they had managed to get a new singer I doubt it would have lasted much past one album as the egos would have reared their ugly heads.........
The band started off with such high hopes but artistic freedom and record company expectaions don't go well together.............product is always more important than art..........even today The Doors we know in the 21st century care more about selling stuff than thier own History......
The search for the next $$$ always more important than the artistic legacy.........
Which is why so many bands broke up back in the 70s and why 30 years on the members of those bands are nothing without the names.............

but surely the soft parade wasnt indicative of them pulling in different directions, but the directot wanting them to try different styles as a whole? the fact that morrison hotel and la woman were so good and together, is that when together, the doors pulled in the same musical direction. ok they had differences..such as jim wanting more poetry in the music or whatever i.e. COTL, and maybe ray was getting cosmic. but dont you think it was the beginning of the 70's and not just jim's death that spurred on that different taste?

[othercircles]

I say again.. to think that Jims death was the main cause for the breakup is just ill thought out dreaming. It's clear that in 73 Ray was moving in a VERY different direction then Robbie and John...

John even said Ray was writing very personal material that only he could sing. You have to read between the lines. Robbie and John wanted a new front man.. Ray didn't. That plus dipping record sales.. and Ray not digging the UK scene made him say fuck it. I bet even after he was in the states they were planning to do something again but everyone got to their own projects and it never happened until Robbie apparently had the idea for digging up Jims poetry and by then they started pimping Jim's spirit which continues to this day.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

ensenada said:

but surely the soft parade wasnt indicative of them pulling in different directions, but the directot wanting them to try different styles as a whole? the fact that morrison hotel and la woman were so good and together, is that when together, the doors pulled in the same musical direction. ok they had differences..such as jim wanting more poetry in the music or whatever i.e. COTL, and maybe ray was getting cosmic. but dont you think it was the beginning of the 70's and not just jim's death that spurred on that different taste?

Of course TSP was an example of them going in different directions.....thats why I referred to it as the Indecision period in my album polls..........
Acid
Indecision
The Blues
Jim disrupted the sessions more than once....we know this because Rothchild tells us.......the band experimented with brass but Jim's contributions shy away from that direction for a more conventional Doors approach (except for Who Scared You which was NOT on the album) ...........it took months to complete because they were all pulling against each other because they did not know where they wanted to be.......this is why Morrison insisted that songs like Tell All The People were credited to Robby...........it was not where he wanted to go...........
I love the album and its not the issue whether its good or bad......its a mess because The Doors could not come together as a unit to record the damn thing because they could not agree on a common strategy for the direction of the album...........
Morrison did not want to play concerts so he was pulling in the opposite direction to the rest of the band.....he recorded a poetry session without them and may well have done other sessions around the time without them even knowing about it.
TSP is the best example we have of The Doors not rowing their boat in the same direction............its a miracle that they got it back together for two awesome albums as TSP could have finished them.........Touch Me was a huge hit but does anyone think that mattered to Morrison.......I would wager that the TSP title song was the subject of a lot of in band argument as I would bet Jim wanted to play that one live more than it was.......
Bear in mind what happened during the TSP sessions.....Miami, Rock Is Dead session, Jim's poetry session...........if thats not musical differences I would love to know what passes for it in Manchester



And I do believe Ian that it was Densmore who first contacted John Haeny and asked him about the poetry tapes......

[jym]

I agree with Alex that TSP is a very good illustration of The Doors not agreeing, & also, that The Doors were done after L.A. Woman, for surely enough Ray, Robby & John were done with Jim, as assuredly he was done with them.

But the reason they couldn't function after Jim left was he was the glue that kept them in check, first by giving the other 3 a singular object to focus on, & after he was gone they didn't have Jim to blame or focus on even if it was his bad behavior, they only had themselves to turn on.

Thank you Rick.

[ensenada]

ensenada said:

jym said:

Of course the final break-up of The Doors was related to Morrison's death. Jim Morrison was the artistic center and soul of the band. Sure Jim kept them professionally and personally on (the) edge, but it also kept them at the creative edge. Sure Robby wrote most of the 'hit' songs of The Doors but for the most part he was taking his lead from Morrison and his themes i.e. Robby said if wanted to compete with Morrison's songs he had to write songs about earth, fire, or water, and that's mostly what his songs ARE about. I know you might say this is a bastardization of something in Oliver Stone's movie but it is also an artistic truth. Also, since Morrison's demise where are all the hits Robby should have been writing since Jim's death. No where, because Jim isn't there to push them to greater creativity.

Without Morrison the last two albums seem flaccid and without soul or a center. Sure, Jim was a pain in the ass, but he also took them to artistic heights they never would have reached without him, and haven't since, as a matter of fact since closing The Doors after Full Circle their best ideas have been to invoke Jim to reach the greater audience they had.

this is spot on for my jym!

this is sposed to say me, not my although i do of course think of you as "MY" jym...gimme some tongue action baby!

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

jym said:

But the reason they couldn't function after Jim left was he was the glue that kept them in check, first by giving the other 3 a singular object to focus on, & after he was gone they didn't have Jim to blame or focus on even if it was his bad behavior, they only had themselves to turn on.

Very good point Jym........didn't think of it like that........

[jym]

ensenada said:

ensenada said:

this is spot on for my jym!

this is sposed to say me, not my although i do of course think of you as "MY" jym...gimme some tongue action baby!

Tongue action granted. Uh, how do you indicate that on-line?

[othercircles]

admin said:

jym said:

But the reason they couldn't function after Jim left was he was the glue that kept them in check, first by giving the other 3 a singular object to focus on, & after he was gone they didn't have Jim to blame or focus on even if it was his bad behavior, they only had themselves to turn on.

Very good point Jym........didn't think of it like that........

They functioned fine. They made 2 albums and did 5 tours. I'd call that functioning.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

But they did NOT function fine as their own words tell a tale of everyone going off in different directions and egos rearing thier ugly heads.
John mentions that everyone was writing songs that were personal to them not the other two band members.
The fact that Ray was moving toward his Golden Scarab opus and the other two were getting into a reggae thing most likely why Ray went home........I cannot under any circumstances envisage Ray being a member of The Butts Band.

[glasstecwindows]

The Doors was related to Morrison's death. Jim Morrison was the artistic center and soul of the band.