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Post by ensenada on Jul 6, 2005 17:43:25 GMT
i was talking to someone in paris about the doors inconcert album. i presume that these tracks are from various gigs, infact someone put up the actually gigs they were from recently. I was talking specifically about the light my fire track with the graveyard poem on. my fave light my fire performance. however he mentioned that it was actually cut up from various gigs and edited together to make theone song. could this be true?   Disc I(Same As Absolutely Live minus "Close To You")"House Announcer" – 2:40 (Philadelphia Spectrum 5/1/70) "Who Do You Love?" (McDaniel) – 6:02 (New York Felt Forum 1st Show 1/17/70) "Alabama Song (Whisky Bar)" (Brecht, Weill) – 1:51 (New York Felt Forum 1st Show 1/17/70) "Back Door Man" (Dixon) – 2:22 (New York Felt Forum 2nd Show 1/18/70) "Love Hides" – 1:48 (Philadelphia Spectrum 5/1/70) "Five to One" – 4:34 (New York Felt Forum 2nd Show 1/17/70 & 1st & 2nd Show 1/18/70) "Build Me a Woman" – 3:33 (New York Felt Forum 2nd Show 1/17/70) "When the Music's Over" – 14:50 (New York Felt Forum 2nd Show 1/17/70) "Universal Mind" – 4:54 (Los Angeles Aquarius Theater 2nd Show 7/21/69) "Petition the Lord with Prayer" – 0:52 (New York Felt Forum 2nd Show 1/18/70) "Dead Cats, Dead Rats" – 1:57 (Detroit Cobo Arena 5/8/70) "Break on Through, #2" - 4:42 (Detroit Cobo Arena 5/8/70) "Lions in the Street" – 1:14 (Los Angeles Aquarius Theater 1st Show 7/21/69) "Wake Up" – 1:21 (Los Angeles Aquarius Theater 1st Show 7/21/69) "A Little Game" – 1:12 (Los Angeles Aquarius Theater 1st Show 7/21/69) "The Hill Dwellers" – 2:35 (Los Angeles Aquarius Theater 1st Show 7/21/69) "Not to Touch the Earth" – 4:14 (Los Angeles Aquarius Theater 1st Show 7/21/69) "Names of the Kingdom" – 1:29 (Los Angeles Aquarius Theater 1st Show 7/21/69) "The Palace of Exile" – 2:20 (Los Angeles Aquarius Theater 1st Show 7/21/69) "Soul Kitchen" – 7:15 (Los Angeles Aquarius Theater 2nd Show 7/21/69) N.B. All tracks written by The Doors, unless noted otherwise.
Tracks 3-6 are a medley, as are tracks 11-12.
Tracks 13-19 are "The Celebration of the Lizard"Disc 2(Includes "Close to You" from Absolutely Live; The complete Alive, She Cried album; and selected other tracks)"Roadhouse Blues" - 6:13 (New York Felt Forum 1st show 1/17/70 & Detroit Cobo Arena 5/08/70 & End Dialogue Boston Arena 2nd Show 4/10/70) "Gloria" (Van Morrison) - 6:17 (Los Angeles Aquarius Theater Rehearsal 7/22/69) "Light My Fire" (Krieger) including "Graveyard Poem" (Morrison) - 9:51 (New York Felt Forum 1st & 2nd Show 1/18/70 & Boston Arena 1st & 2nd Show 4/10/70) "You Make Me Real" - 3:06 (Los Angeles Aquarius Theater 2nd Show 7/21/69 with new guitar overdub) "Texas Radio & The Big Beat" - 1:52 (Copenhagen Denmark T.V. Show 9/18/68 with new guitar overdub) "Love Me Two Times" - 3:17 (Copenhagen Denmark T.V. Show 9/18/68 with new drum overdub) "Little Red Rooster" (Dixon) - 7:15 (New York Felt Forum 1st Show 1/17/70 & Dialogue 2nd Show 1/18/70 with Harmonica overdub) "Moonlight Drive" including "Horse Latitudes" (Morrison) - 5:34 (vocal from New York Felt Forum 1st Show 1/18/70 with a newly recorded instrumental track) "Close to You" - 5:26 (New York Felt Forum 2nd Show 1/18/70) "Unknown Soldier" - 4:25 (Los Angeles Hollywood Bowl 7/5/68) "The End" - 15:42 (Los Angeles Hollywood Bowl 7/5/68) N.B. All tracks written by The Doors, unless noted otherwise. |
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Jul 7, 2005 9:11:53 GMT
Paul Rothchild was a genius at cutting and pasting so I doubt any tracks on Alive She Cried (which is the album it was originally on) were not doctored.
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Post by eks74014 on Jul 17, 2011 20:30:09 GMT
to my ears, "Light My Fire" as on 'Alive She Cried' and later 'In Concert', the basic track is from one (or a cut & paste job from several) of the Felt Forum shows in New York City; Jan. 17 & 18, 1970... small bits and pieces are not from these performances though, it's almost impossible to find out about the whole structure of the song...
the "Graveyard Poem" is from the second set at the Boston Arena (April 10, 1970)... it was part of the "LMF" medley there but obviously the Felt Forum performances were way more appropriate and much better for an official release (at the time)... as you may know, Jim in Boston was extremely drunk, while for the two days / four sets at the Felt Forum the previous January, he was in top form...
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Jul 18, 2011 8:32:20 GMT
It's well known that it was from concerts between 1968-1970 and recorded in Los Angeles, New York, Detroit, Boston and Copenhagen with bits chopped and mixed up by Rothchild. He did a good job with both AL and ASC and actually produced one of the Doors best recorded live concerts with AL even if it was a fake. Absolutely LiveAlive She Cried |
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wplj
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Post by wplj on Jul 21, 2011 15:39:31 GMT
I wouldn't call AL "fake." 99% of all live albums are either edited, overdubbed, or both. Some are recorded in the studio with canned audience added later. AL is a MASTERPIECE of editing. Having heard nearly all the BMA releases, I still say the best live Doors CD is In Concert. It cherry picks the best tracks (for the most part), edits them for concision ... (the overdubbing was not necessary, IMHO) ... and there you have it ... an excellent "sampler" of the band live. Again, there are NO overdubs on AL, just massive editing. (But I'm sure you know that!  ) |
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Jul 21, 2011 16:04:10 GMT
I don't use the word with any disrespect as AL is indeed Rothchilds Doors masterpiece.
The guy was a genius.
1000 or more edits is a staggering achievement when you consider the finished product.
Way better than the BMR concerts but of course not a 'real' concert a sort of fantasy concert of what the Doors might have been on a good night.
Pity he had not done that in 1967.
One thing he did do which was not cool was his attempt to doctor the live album that would have come from the Aquarius concerts. Luckily Jim decided not to play his game.
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Post by eks74014 on Jul 21, 2011 16:53:07 GMT
I find the way "Absolutely Live" was done very similar to the recording/production process of a studio album: there's several takes on the songs before a) the definite take is nailed, or b) there's enough good stuff to glue together a master from different takes... "The End" studio master for example, was pieced together from two different takes...
indeed Paul A. Rothchild's finest hour producing The Doors... the Bright Midnight releases hold all the ingredients from which Rothchild distilled this hot boiling potion... "Absolutely Live" comes extremely recommended for any music fan, the concerts in their entirety are for the more avid Doors fan willing to swallow with roots and leafs...
in finding a healthy "Absolutely Live" vs. Bright Midnight balance, try this for excercise: pick your favourite Felt Forum, Aquarius Theatre, Boston, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and Detroit performances of the "Absolutely Live" playlist and make this your very own personal take on this legendary album... mine would start with "Who Do You Love" from the second Felt Forum set, love it particularly for its extended musical ventures and amazing percussions... this may well be worth a forum thread on its own...
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wplj
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Post by wplj on Jul 21, 2011 17:08:32 GMT
Well, I know I would pick WTMO from Philladelphia '70. The band and Jim are on fire, Robby's solo has to be heard to be believed, and Ray's extended keyboard freakout before the vocals come in for the last verse is a wonder to behold!  |
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Post by eks74014 on Jul 21, 2011 17:14:24 GMT
this being a thread for "In Concert" I can see where the talk of overdubs and 'fake' in previous entries comes from... not so much of a problem on "Absolutely Live" but indeed on "Alive She Cried" everything isn't absolutely live... minor issue: the 'clean cut' Gloria was recorded live but without an audience the day after the two glorious Aquarius shows... so is that live, yes or no?... I say yes and I am thankful for the fact that it never was dubbed with an audience track; talk of fake...
"Alive She Cried" clearly has some serious overdubbing on it though... most notable: added guitar work on "Texas Radio & The Big Beat" which was taken from the performance for Danish TV in 1968... in my opinion, "Alive She Cried" is less the cut & paste job that was "Absolutely Live", but instead its contents were polished and perfected with overdubbing.
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Jul 21, 2011 17:32:50 GMT
Of course it's 'live'. I use the word 'fake' not in the context you seem to be thinking I use it in. I am not saying it is somehow not 'real'. It's like the word 'live' in the context of AL. It depends how you define the word. Is it 'live'? Yes indeed it is. Is it an accurate representation of an actual concert? Of course not its a cut and paste job a chimera. It's not a 'real' concert but then neither is it 'fakery'. Supposedly every note and word is from an actual live section of a show. It simply did not happen in the order represented on the album. That is the interesting thing I find when I discuss The Doors. The Devil is in the detail. Words can sometimes lead to confusion if we are not careful of how we actually define what we say. We have all done it one time or another. I apologise for any confusion. |
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Post by eks74014 on Jul 21, 2011 17:37:38 GMT
hats off to you for that, Alex! detail within word choice is indeed an ugly beast!  |
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wplj
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Post by wplj on Jul 21, 2011 18:50:02 GMT
Bloody English language! I just felt the need to clarify ... sorry if I stepped on some toes. And I agree ... ASC is polished; AL is more "real," ha ha ha! |
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Jul 21, 2011 20:20:08 GMT
I just felt the need to clarify ... sorry if I stepped on some toes. No apologies needed there we like toe steppers here. That is the essence of debate. I get annoyed at Doors fans 'cos they don't understand how to debate. The fuckwits on the LL and places like Densmore's think debate equals some kind of 'argument' and of course it does and it doesn't. It does as a debate consists of an 'argument' being put forward but saying something contrary is not an 'argument' by which it means we should all start calling each other names but simply a 'counter argument' to provoke discussion. A great many Doors fans seem unable to grasp the concept that a 'discussion' requires at least ONE person to disagree with everybody else or else it's just an agreement fest. A 'healthy discussion' involves several viewpoints....the more the better. But sadly Doors fans seem to think a smiley face or LOL constitutes an in depth discussion. I would rather have ten self opinionated toe steppers here than a thousand LL fuckwits who think discussing the colour of Jim Morrison's boxer shorts makes them seem intellectuals. Compared to most of the Doors retards that infest places like that they probably are but here we like to give a go to some original thought about the band and the people in it. Even if it sometimes pisses people off. |
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wplj
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Post by wplj on Jul 22, 2011 7:50:05 GMT
Cool. Does seem to be a ton of suck-ups on the official Doors board. I haven't visited Densmore's board.
Off topic, but did you see on the official board that Jampol seemed to get excited that Botnick has informed him one of the outtakes that was "found" is a lengthy blues jam. Great. Just what we need. More aimless Doors blues jams ... Here's hoping it goes somewhere and has some good playing, but I would rather hear something else ...
Also, I have a hunch about what the 4 disc set might contain. It says in the press release that the content of the 4CD set and the app are similar, with the app, obviously, being a more interactive medium. There are several interviews in that app. I bet one of the 4 audio CDs in the deluxe box consists of nothing but interviews. An interesting listen ... ONCE! Argh!
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Jul 22, 2011 8:03:00 GMT
Jampol seems easily excited as (and I am presuming it's what I am referring to) it's been in trading circles for years. I have it somewhere.
The MH Lonnie Mack blues jam is most likely what that is.
It's interesting nothing more.
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wplj
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Post by wplj on Jul 22, 2011 9:20:21 GMT
Sorry, didn't clarify. Jampol was refering to the L.A. Woman outtake pool being used for the 40th Anniversary release this fall.
Still. Not interested. I want alternates of tunes (which we are getting) and some unreleased tunes (if they exist). I really don't want a full disc of interviews. I will most likely spring for the 2 CD version if that happens.
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Jul 22, 2011 9:33:52 GMT
Yeah I knew that. But Jampol is a know nothing idiot so is probably still referring to the MH blues jam with Lonnie Mack.
If it's another one it may be interesting but the only blues jam that has been talked about is this one and Jampol is famous for not being able to answer Doors related questions without having to consult someone.
basically he is just some bloke they employ to make money for them.
He is good at that job but considering he has boasted he is the #1 Doors fan he does not seem to know very much about the band.
If I had his job I would not need Botnick to tell me anything as I would know this shit like the back of my hand by now.
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