What if the doors had made a 7th album with Jim?

[othercircles]

I think it would have consisted at least partly of leftover live tracks.. that were already part of their jam repetoire much as LA Woman was. We would most likely have been treated to a studio version of "Mystery Train" I bet that among others are laying on a shelf somewhere from the "LA Woman" sessions... amongst the outtakes that we'll probably get to hear in another 10 years when everything else has been exausted.

I also think we would have seen more of Jim's existing poetry turn up in song form. Again.. much the same as LA Woman and Morrison Hotel.

Black Train closes side one in typical doors fasion.. the long jam rocker... loaded with fun instrumental bits where ray does a tack piano solo.

If I could make the doors do what I wanted.. I'd have em take all those recordings of these Jim songs from concerts.. and redo the instruments and make studio versions of these with Jims vocal. The only one they got around to doing that for was orange county suite and mystery train.. which were studio demos basically.




Side 1)
In The Eye Of The Sun
I Will Never Be Untrue
Ships With Sails
Mystery Train

Side 2)
Build Me A Woman
Someday Soon
Whisky, Mystics and Men
Wandering Musician
Orange County Suite

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Its hard to know if Jim was writing anything with a view to 'songs' in Paris as the Paris Journal is not conclusive.....
But maybe some of the poetry might have made it to the music The Doors were producing whilst he was away.......
I for one do not belive he was ever coming back as a Door but what you propose is a decent stab at what that album might have been......of all the OV tracks those three would have suited Jim no doubt......we know he refused to even sing I'm Horny I'm Stoned but may have consented to having a go at Down On The Farm.
I do believe if they had ever made an album as a four piece that Ray and John would have involved themselves in the writing side even if Jim had carried on with lyrics.....
Would they have opted for a blues album and then tried a jazz one....very likely.....Jim was also negotiating with Jac for a poetry album.....and lets not forget that an original idea (after COTL failed) for WFTS was for Jim to read poems between the music tracks so that may well have been an option.
Many feel that they would have tried to do an LAW 2 but that would not be on my agenda........Jim's voice was going by 1971 so I wonder if the instrumental side would have dominated to cover the fact the vocalist was shot...........
tracks like Texas Radio where Jim 'reads' rather than 'sings' may have been an option............
It certainly is a subject that I have never seen discussed....maybe some of the folks here have a view?

[jym]

I also think Jim was done with The Doors too. But that album cover & the track listings is pretty cool, but I think the album would've been called something else, because if Jim had come back there wouldn't have been any other voices.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

I dunno Jim as the literary connection is quite cool.......OK Other Voices : Other Rooms dealt with the attitude to homosexuality in the Deep South but there are a lot of interesting Capote links to justify the title with a Jim album.....and lets face it the Jim of the first few albums was long gone so the analogy stands on its own even as that....

"The brain may take advice, but not the heart, and love having no geography, knows no boundaries: weight and sink it deep, no matter, it will rise and find the surface: and why not? any love is natural and beautiful that lies within a person's nature; only hyprocrites would hold a man responsible for what he loves, emotional illiterates and those of righteous envy, who, in their agitated concern, mistake so frequently the arrow pointing to heaven for the one that leads to hell."
other voices other rooms by truman capote

BTW Ian what about a back cover and an inside one?

[jym]

admin said:

"The brain may take advice, but not the heart, and love having no geography, knows no boundaries: weight and sink it deep, no matter, it will rise and find the surface: and why not? any love is natural and beautiful that lies within a person's nature; only hyprocrites would hold a man responsible for what he loves, emotional illiterates and those of righteous envy, who, in their agitated concern, mistake so frequently the arrow pointing to heaven for the one that leads to hell."
other voices other rooms by truman capote

Good point Alex. I didn't know you were a big Capote fan. Here's a couple aphorisms for you.

1) Capote wasn't gay he only wrote that way.-quote from my sister

2) You show me a southern writer with a deep dark secret, it'll always be homosexuality.-Me

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

jym said:

2) You show me a southern writer with a deep dark secret, it'll always be homosexuality.-Me

'Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil' which starred John Cusack and Kevin Spacey being a good example.........also a good example of a bloody brilliant film.

jym said:

Good point Alex. I didn't know you were a big Capote fan.

Not really although I know a bit about him that I find interesting ....he was a friend of Harper Lee as a kid, she worked with him on In Cold Blood which I read in the 70s and thought was rather good considering we had just had the Moors Murders a short time before.
(Be interesting to see how Philip Seymour Hoffman does with the movie when it comes out on DVD......)
He wrote the screenplay to the Innocents which is a scary as fook film as well as Bogeys Beat the Devil.....and obviously the book Breakfast @ Tiffany's.
I imagine Morrison was aware and liked this bloke on several levels which makes Other Voices a great title for the 7th Doors/Jim album.....

[othercircles]

and lets not forget that an original idea (after COTL failed) for WFTS was for Jim to read poems between the music tracks so that may well have been an option

Yea which Ray ended up doing on "The Golden Scarab".. as well as the forementioned mystery train... which makes me think these things were something Ray really wanted too... so if Jim wanted it.. and Ray wanted it.... you can bet your ass it woulda been on there.

And alex.. your argument for the other voices title mirrors my thoughts exactly.

Hmmmm... back and inside cover eh? That sounds like a challenge... hehe... I'll give it a shot tonight. :-)

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

I think if you look at the albums the lads made during the early part of the 70s after Jim's death its clear that ideas were brimming in the 3 Doors so its fair to imagine that a 7th/8th album with Jim would have incorporated blues and jazz and theatre.....perhaps even reggae....although I dunno if Jim would have been into that........
Maybe they could have finally nailed COTL....that would have been something......
I would imagine also that Jim's negotiations with Jac Holzman would have resulted in an American Prayer style album a helluva lot earlier than 1978.
It's well known Jim wanted a Door-less album of poetry but that would have been a no hoper and I would imagine Jim compromising to include The Doors......
I doubt for one second any of this would have happened if Jim had lived but its an interesting little bit of whimsy anyways!

Good luck with the covers...

[othercircles]

If you could give me a pic of either of those to start with, that'd increase the chances of me actually doing it alot more. Doesn't seem to be ANY on google images.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

'Other Voices'

Back & inside covers here......first post

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

The contents of Jim's last notebook are 'full of stanza's and imagery - it represents a confident and finished sequence of poems'.
'Several pages are variants of older poems, such as The Ancient Ones, Winter Photography and The Hitchhiker. Other pages contain only one or two lines, but variations in the writing style indicate they may have been thought over for days. The notebook contains both wonderful new poems and scabrous jottings: JERK-BAIT SCROTUM, INC. and Fuck Shit Piss Cunt. A previously unknown poem, Impossible Garden, refers to a beautiful savage like me and the most insane whore in Christendom. A new song lyric, Now You Are in Danger, seems to sum up Jim's Paris idyll: Let the piper call the tune/March, April, May, June. The next page contains short lyrics for a blues song: 'We're two of a kind/We're two of a kind/You want yours, and I want mine.'
'Page 17 contains one line: She'll get over it.
Page 18: What can I say? What can I do? I thought you found my sexual affection stimulating
Page 19: UMHM/Glorious sexual cool/I'm finally dead
Page 20: In that year we were blessed/By a great visitation of energy.

This is an interesting snippet from the forthcoming auction of Jim's paris notebook............
Jim's last Poems Paris June 1971?
'Now You Are in Danger'
'Let the piper call the tune/March, April, May, June.'
and a blues song
'We're two of a kind/We're two of a kind/You want yours, and I want mine.'
feature in this one and who knows what else is in the '127 Fascination' box.
I'm still not convinced that he would have gone back to The Doors but it seems that he was still interested in continuing in the music field as well as poetry and was working on songs in Paris.........

[ensenada]

first time ive seen this thread, but what a great idea! the album would be great i reckon..some good songs on there..and the album cover is interesting...a circa 1971 pic of jim isnt it? probably what he would have still looked like at the time of other voices...

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

Its one of the Paris pix mate from 1971............quite a few were taken by Alain Ronay I think this is one of his.....

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

othercircles said:

Side 1)
In The Eye Of The Sun
I Will Never Be Untrue
Ships With Sails
Mystery Train

Side 2)
Build Me A Woman
Someday Soon
Whisky, Mystics and Men
Wandering Musician
Orange County Suite

Other stuff that could have featured on this include 'Love Hides', 'Universal Mind' and Bakersfields 'Old Stone Road' which could have been developed into decent blues tunes and also Jim was working on a few songs both prior to and in Paris in 1971.

Also his poems like 'Winter Photography' and 'Woman In The Window' could have been worked up into Doors songs.
The list is pretty long as to what could have been acheived on a 7th Doors album.

[jym]

I've always had this theory that if Hendrix had lived the 70's disco music wouldn't have been able to get a foot hold because of the quality of the music. I think The Doors might fit in there too, they would have kept better music out there.

But maybe if Jim, Jimi, & Janis had lived then maybe punk rock would never had gotten a start. Or maybe it would have because these guys would have the establishment by then, a lot of permutations possible.

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

We know Jim was writing 'songs' in Paris as the repeated sale of his papers from paris show.
But maybe some of the poetry might have made it to the music The Doors were producing whilst he was away.......
.....of all the OV tracks those three would have suited Jim no doubt......we know was not keen on Down On The Farm but may have consented to having a go at I'm Horny I'm Stoned.
The Bakersfield tape from 1970 includes a rather bluesy song Old Stone Road so it's likely that several other songs were in various stages of development as well.

I do believe if they had ever made an album as a four piece that Ray and John would have involved themselves in the writing side even if Jim had carried on with lyrics.....
Would they have opted for a blues album and then tried a jazz one....very likely.....Jim was also negotiating with Jac for a poetry album.....and lets not forget that an original idea (after COTL failed) for WFTS was for Jim to read poems between the music tracks so that may well have been an option.

Many feel that they would have tried to do an LAW 2 but that would not be on my agenda........Jim's voice was going by 1971 so I wonder if the instrumental side would have dominated to cover the fact the vocalist was shot...........
tracks like Texas Radio where Jim 'reads' rather than 'sings' may have been an option............
It certainly is a subject that I have never seen discussed much....maybe some of the folks here have a view?

[gizmo]

i think the doors could have made a new album, but after a long period of silence. a lot of band have a break after they created a few records in a row(and 5 records in a row is quite a lot) so i think that jim's stay in paris was a good start to write without thinking about the shows and music. when you restart with a band you can get a new and fresh view on the music you make, you also get the chance to do something different with music.
i think that's the reason why bandmembers start solo careers after a few albums so the individual artist can work on their personal style of music without the fans having a problem with the different style of music.
when after a while the band reforms and starts to play again they all have a fresh mind so they can play a new sort of the old style of music.
the biggest problem for a band is that you see eachother to much and get annoyed pretty fast about the smallest things, so if you don't take a break the band will stop playing and start fighting about money(wich happened to the doors after jim died).
i even think that during the break jim would start to drink less after a year or so coz he didn't felt the pressure of being jim morisson(i think thats the reason why jim started to drink to much)

but it's still a guess............ noone knows for sure

[TheWallsScreamedPoetry]

The biggest problem for The Doors was that they had drifted apart concept wise after Buick and Waiting For The Sun.
There is a very interesting discussion on this at Densmores which I brought here in the hope it gets a bit of new interest.

The Doors unhinged..Soft Parade cause & effect

Why did 'And The Doors' not trust Jim?

Why Jim Would Have Returned To The Doors

Jim gets sued by The Doors: when he is dead





It's true that the others had indeed begun to write as after LAW and Jim going to paris the band rehearses thier own songs rather than any Jim stuff.
Obviously if Jim had left the band (as seems likely) then they would have had find thier songwriting feet and Ray seems to have taken to that quite well.

Wether Jim could have conquered booze remains to be seen.
I am a firm believer that Jim's demeanour was a big factor in 1969 and 1970. The fact that the band went for hits rather than the poetic dramatic way forward that Jim seems to have had in mind cannot have helped.

Wether that was due to pressure from Elektra or not we do not know for sure. But as was put forward during that debate the loss of COTL made way for hits like HILY which would most likely have never been used if COTL had been a success.
HILY broke the band in Europe and we can only guess what the 1968 Euro tour would have been like if COTL had made up two sides of WFTS as was envisaged by Morrison at one stage.

Instead Elektra got their hit and the band were seen on TOTP miming HILY which Morrison was not at all happy with.

If the band had gone down the avenue Morrison wanted then LAW and MH would likley have been very different. Morrison seemed to lose interest for a while and the fact that Robby was favoured by Elektra for singles for nigh on two years shows that something was not quite right.

We can only wonder where a 7th album would have led the band.

[gizmo]

i think paul rothcildmakes the difference, if he would have produced the next album it owuld be a commercial album wich had to have hits on it so,jim would have fucked off and took all his songs with him. if they recorded the way they did with la woman, jim would be having more freedom to present his songs and make them work.
paul rothchild turned out to be the bad guy for jim.

[patdmelt]

The 7th album probably would pick up where la woman left off. Things changed so fast back then who know where it would of ended up. Jim was a sick man so even if he's survived paris, he was a goner. We look at this stuff w/ a 40 year cushion. back then those guys were trying to still be hip. I'm new by the way love this board!!