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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Mar 8, 2011 15:49:26 GMT
We have all read how the three surviving members of The Doors were left bereft when Jim died. Every member has made a point of how struck down with grief they were but it seems that grief did not leave them unable to think of the most important aspect. That of their bank accounts. Jim Morrison was barely cold in his grave when this document appeared claiming money for loans, expenses incurred and money due for his Doors obligations. Which is particularly interesting as he according to Siddons had left the band in March so did he have any Doors obligations after that? certainly tells us why the surviving Doors never admit that he had left the band. The date of the first notice for claim from creditors named as Doors Production Corps is August 25th so it's fair to assume that they began this legal proceeding before that date. As it was nearly a week after Jim died they found out he was no longer with us then it's a pretty fucking short time to get over his death and start to sue his cold dead ass for money he owed them. It's also fair to assume that Ray was the instigator of this as he is the one who signs the initial document as the vice president of Doors production corps. The other two don't use this title. I might be being unfair to him but I assume this as he was the one most interested in the cash and make this assumption because the other two were barely capable of putting on a pair of trousers when the four Doors were alive and the main power blocs were always Ray and Jim.
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Mar 8, 2011 16:05:09 GMT
This wrangle over Jim's money seems to have carried on until Pam herself died in 1974 as her estate is still subject to the claim from the three Doors in 1976. Considering the state the poor woman was in when she got back from Europe it seems particularly cruel that those three inflicted this upon her on top of what she was already having to cope with. We can only guess how she felt during those years as she saw people like the remaining Doors try to take advantage from her distress by trying to once again sell Light My Fire for profit. She was able to prevent that bless her by using her Morrison veto. So considering the way she has been painted over the decades by Doors fans it seems she was more in tune with Morrisons wishes than Ray, John and Robby. She deserves credit for that. She gets a lot of stick from us fans, some deserved it's true, but one thing she didn't seem to have seen much of was sympathy from the three money grubbing Doors survivors. Not quite the way it's all been presented this last 40 years now is it?
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Mar 8, 2011 16:10:00 GMT
Billboard April 28 1973 Page 60
Jim Morrison’s grave in Paris in shoddy condition, with just a loose metal plate, hand scrawled, as a headstone, and graffiti scratched all over. With the Doors, Morrison had many chart hits for Elektra Records.Interesting that they could spend so much time and effort suing his ass but not devote any time to giving the man a fitting resting place in Paris. No profit in it then I guess There are tales that they gave Pamela money for the grave and she spent it on smack but these stories cannot shift the attention from these three. Why not do the work themselves and see that the money was used for the purpose intended rather than give it to a distraught woman with a heroin addiction.
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Mar 8, 2011 16:15:25 GMT
Billboard May 4 1974 Page 52 This Week’s Legal Action 3 Doors Sue Morrison Widow
Los Angeles – The three surviving Doors, through their publishing, production and performance companies, have sued the widow of their late singer, Jim Morrison, for over $250,000 allegedly advanced to Morrison as recoupable corporate loans before his death.
According to the suit filed in Superior Court here, Pamela Courson Morrison, as executrix of the estate, has refused to let the Doors corporations deduct Morrison’s advances from incoming royalities.
PAMELA MORRISON: A FINAL CURTAIN ON HER AFFAIR WITH LIFE By: Judith Simms Rolling Stone Magazine June 6 1974 (Excerpt)
Sugerman said Pamela had been despondent lately because of business affairs. Generally, she felt she wasn’t being consulted enough by the attorney’s and other ex-Doors; specifically she had protested a plan to sell the rights to the Doors song, “Light My Fire,” for a Tiparillo commercial. Publishing rights to Doors songs are owned jointly by the Morrison Estate and ex-Doors, Ray Manzarek, John Densmore and Robby Krieger. Manzarek met with Pamela and agreed not to sell the song.
Jim Morrison tried to protect her with his will, in which he bequeathed everything to Pamela. Pamela received no money from the estate for almost two years because she objected to approximately $75,000 in attorney’s fees submitted by Max Fink and other for work on Morrison’s Miami trial among other duties. According to Hopkins, :It was a standoff for a while. Pamela changed lawyers four times and finally gave in and agreed to pay. She got about $150,000 cash (plus the investments in oil land) and she got that less than a year ago. The first thing she did was buy a VW and a mink coat.”
Max Fink said Morrison’s total estate including all assets is now between $300,000 to $400,000. “There were some provisions in the will (in case of her demise). The only provision was that she had to survive Jim for a period of six months after his death to inherit, which she did. It all belongs to her parents now.” Had she died before the six month period, Jim’s brother Andrew and sister Anne would have inherited the money. It now goes to Mr and Mrs Columbus Courson; he’s a high school principal in Orange County, a retired Naval commander. (Jim’s father is an Admiral.)
In late April, before Pamela’s death a lawsuit was filed in L.A. Superior Court on behalf of the three ex-Doors, suing for $250,000 allegedly advanced to Jim Morrison as loans before his death. The lawsuit alleged that Pamela Morrison refused to let the surviving Doors deduct those advances from their royalties.
When asked to comment on the lawsuits, Ray Manzarek exploded, “I don’t know anything about that. What a fucking bummer! It’s just lawyers getting their stinking excrement-encrusted fingers into it. It’s the tackiest thing I ever heard of.”
Abe Somer, encrusted attorney for Manzarek and the other Doors said, “Certain things have to be done with judicial approval. The documents speak for themselves.” He would not elaborate on the lawsuit. Somer said he was sure the Doors knew about it; “If they don’t their business manager certainly does.”
Bob Greene, the business manager said, “There’s no significance to the lawsuit; it’s a protective move, a legal maneuver, because Pamela’s attorneys didn’t prepare certain papers in time. It’s not a real lawsuit; it doesn’t mean the estate will actually have to pay any money. There won’t be a trial.”
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Mar 8, 2011 16:25:06 GMT
When asked to comment on the lawsuits, Ray Manzarek exploded, “I don’t know anything about that. What a fucking bummer! It’s just lawyers getting their stinking excrement-encrusted fingers into it. It’s the tackiest thing I ever heard of.”
Well we know from the documents that this was another Ray Manzarek lie. And he could not even use Jimbo to divert the blame away from him. It seems that the lawyers used their stinking excrement-encrusted fingers to forge Ray's signature back in 1971 when he and the other two began these proceedings. The only shit I see on that document are the signatures of Jim Morrison's so called mates. “There’s no significance to the lawsuit; it’s a protective move, a legal maneuver, because Pamela’s attorneys didn’t prepare certain papers in time. It’s not a real lawsuit; it doesn’t mean the estate will actually have to pay any money. There won’t be a trial.”
Seems pretty real as it began about six weeks after The Doors discovered Morrison was dead. From reading these documents it seems to me that even before Jim's body had cooled down The Doors were taking steps to get their stinking excrement-encrusted fingers on any money they felt Jim owed them. They forget the amount of money he himself was to forego when he signed his songwriting over to them on an equal basis. Seems shameful that they could not even write off a petty sum like this in lieu of the huge amount of money he would make for them in the future. But like rats deserting a sinking ship these three nasty little rodents chose not to remember that and could see no further than the end of their own chequebooks. Intersting stuff eh?
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Mar 8, 2011 16:29:45 GMT
Sugerman said Pamela had been despondent lately because of business affairs. Generally, she felt she wasn’t being consulted enough by the attorney’s and other ex-Doors; specifically she had protested a plan to sell the rights to the Doors song, “Light My Fire,” for a Tiparillo commercial. Publishing rights to Doors songs are owned jointly by the Morrison Estate and ex-Doors, Ray Manzarek, John Densmore and Robby Krieger. Manzarek met with Pamela and agreed not to sell the song.
Interesting this as Manzarek met with her and agreed not to sell the song and not all three. That tells you whose idea it was. I can imagine his wheedling, whiny, nasal voice trying to talk her round to the sweet deal. She could probably have bought a lot of smack with here share. Instead she told Ray to go fuck himself. Good lass!
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Post by casandra on Mar 8, 2011 18:45:30 GMT
After reading all these documents, I have some doubts and I think with these three we always have to read between the lines because it's more what they don’t say what they say.
1. They claimed in August 1971 (as you say Alex, with Morrison’s corpse still warm, which is already a bit disgusting), 77,000 dollars of loans to Jim. Is it supposedly for the debt of the lawyers for the Miami trial? (On the Rolling Stone article says the disagreement between Pamela and the Doors were 75,000 dollars for the Miami lawyers). So I ask: if at first the Doors took care of the expenses of the trial, Jim once dead ... Did they decide to claim the money to Pamela? If that agreement wasn’t written and the dead couldn’t speak, nobody could accuse them of lying…
2. The claim of 5,900 dollars given to Morrison state after July 4, 1971. Is that money the burial cost, Bill Siddons’ trip to France and return Pamela to the United States?. We don’t know surely, but if those are all costs for travel and burial, I think people are pretty miserable and disrespectful with their dead friend or "associate", because they (the three cold businessmen) claimed the money to the associate's heir.
3. When Pamela and The Doors came to agreement, then they claimed $250,000 on loans to Jim. Why they didn’t claim in the first sue and they waited two or three years to claim this money?. If they gave to Jim this money, it would be before July 3, 1971 or before March, 1971 when he was to Paris. Here I do the next ask, perhaps did they finally decide to claim more expenses of the Miami trial?. The accountant said that is only a formal sue and not a trial, however it seems weird that two or three years after Jim’s death new loans appear.
As you say, Alex, both Jim and Pamela had many flaws, but at least they had some moral integrity.
These three did not spare a single cent that Jim supposedly debted them, when they became rich thanks to him.
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adam
Door Half Open
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Post by adam on Mar 8, 2011 18:47:11 GMT
the benefit of hindsight eh Ray?
just think if the doors had, had songwriter ownership rights in place from day one, Ray could of pressurized robby into selling LMF
that Ray is trying very hard to get 'his' (sic) share of Jim's <$0.5m estate* just goes to show how he thought his future earning potential wasn't very promising in the early 1970s... (i'm saying i think he saw the jim money as his only option to be rich after jim's death, not thru music)
in fact this raises an interesting point (to me anyway)
if Jim was only worth half a mil at time of his death (not a vast sum for an international star) then how come the doors are multi millionaires now?
cos of oliver stone.
ray should thank oliver really, shouldn't he!!!!
(*i'm not saying this isn't a lot of money -especially in 1971- but $100+K for each door when they were under 30yrs old wasn't enough to retire on)
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Mar 8, 2011 18:58:50 GMT
1. They claimed in August 1971 (as you say Alex, with Morrison’s corpse still warm, which is already a bit disgusting), 77,000 dollars of loans to Jim. Is it supposedly for the debt of the lawyers for the Miami trial? (On the Rolling Stone article says the disagreement between Pamela and the Doors were 75,000 dollars for the Miami lawyers). So I ask: if at first the Doors took care of the expenses of the trial, Jim once dead ... Did they decide to claim the money to Pamela? If that agreement wasn’t written and the dead couldn’t speak, nobody could accuse them of lying… I presume that was the money for the trial which must have been the money Max Fink claimed from Pamela. Maybe the other 2 grand was for Ray's phone bill. It looks like they claimed it from the Jim Morrison estate at first and when that fell into Pam's hands they claimed it from her. 2. The claim of 5,900 dollars given to Morrison state after July 4, 1971. Is that money the burial cost, Bill Siddons’ trip to France and return Pamela to the United States?. We don’t know surely, but if those are all costs for travel and burial, I think people are pretty miserable and disrespectful with their dead friend or "associate", because they (the three cold businessmen) claimed the money to the associate's heir. Interesting point. I had not thought of that. Perhaps burial costs. Money for accomadation. Siddons expenses perhaps and money to bury Jim. Seems very heartless to claim this from the estate if that was the case. that Ray is trying very hard to get 'his' (sic) share of Jim's <$0.5m estate* just goes to show how he thought his future earning potential wasn't very promising in the early 1970s... (i'm saying i think he saw the jim money as his only option to be rich after jim's death, not thru music) Another interesting point and one which might explain as to why they did not visit Jim's grave in May 1972. Perhaps they indeed thought their prospects thin and once again blamed the dead guy. The Doors were in a slump back then and LAW did not sell as well as previous albums even with Jim's death to sell it. They werre not to know the good fortune that would come their way due to the myth behind the circumstances of Jim's demise and the leg up Danny, Coppola and Stone would give them. I would assume that they were hardly beggars in 1971 and Jac gave them a new record contract. It was up to them to make a new niche for themselves and to their credit they gave it a good go. I think people were just tired of The Doors by then. The lull before the storm that lifted them into Legend. But still, they were supposed to be this blokes friends. They treated his girlfriend/common law wife really badly and showed scant regard for his memory. But then 40 years later what has changed.
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adam
Door Half Open
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Post by adam on Mar 8, 2011 19:03:50 GMT
good points alex
i've often wondered why pam gets the shit she does from the fans...
for what?
killing jim?
i think we have to assume that (if the heroin stories are true) jim was big enough & bad enough to know that smack is a dangerous drug & that just possibly (ie almost certainly) he'd come across the stuff l-o-n-g before 1971
or is it because she was asleep when he died? because after all it was her job to look after jim like a nurse at all times (NOT)
or maybe it's because apparently pam wanted jim to leave the band & write poems instead, because that idea wouldn't have appealed to jim in the slightest (NOT)
or perhaps it's because pam wouldn't sell LMF to ray, so he could buy a bigger boat!!!!!!
the hatred for pam seems to have started WITH the doors, rothchild certainly had no qualms in his "in nature red means danger & pam had red hair i thought uh-oh here's trouble when i first met her" comments
more like "here's someone who will look out for the best interests of jim & not the band" IMHO....
pam does seem to get a very bad deal, yet all she seemed to do was stick by her man, deal with the (presumably hard work) of an open relationship & encourage jim to be a poet (which was probably how he introduced himself when they first met)
no wonder the courson's forbade stone from featuring their daughter in a negative light,they're probably sick & tired of hearing it & didn't need a whole new generation of fans thinking she was an "arcehole"
in fact, apart from swallowing the pat kenealy* bullshit i think stone did a good job of portraying jim's love life = he fucked who he wanted, but only loved pam
poor lass
*shame pat is full of shit really as her view point of jim is quite sweet & she has tried very hard to paint the picture of the intellectual & poet, at a time when the rest of the world was besotted with how much acid jim took - but a liar's a liar & she's a liar !!
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Mar 8, 2011 19:12:48 GMT
I have given Pam stick in the past myself and she deserves credit for stopping The Doors selling LMF for the second time.
Good point about Mad Pat. She has been consistent in her portrayal of Jim as an artist but her crazy demeanour and insane lies sully her viewpoint and all we remember is the nutjob.
Ray has done a good sleight of hand job this last 40 years in that he has portrayed Pam and John as villains when he is in fact the real evil genius of all this sad drama.
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Post by kristyob on Mar 8, 2011 19:51:46 GMT
"Seems shameful that they could not even write off a petty sum like this in lieu of the huge amount of money he would make for them in the future."
From my understanding, the Doors profits and popularity were waning until the publication of NOHGOA. From that point on the Doors put a very specific marketing plan into action to find new fans and increase profits, which we have seen has been very successful. But at this point immediately after Jim's death, their future revenue was unclear.
But to play devil's advocate...when would have been an approriate time to ask for the money Jim owed them ? There would have been no lawsuit had Pam allowed the amount to be taken from royalties (which I believe is standard practice).
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Post by darkstar3 on Mar 8, 2011 20:00:24 GMT
The $75,000 claim is not for Jim's attorney fees in association with his trial. I'm sure that amount was paid for out of his estate - Max Fink, his attorney was a co-executor in Jim's will.
The $75,000 was held in reserve pending the outcome of a lawsuit filed in 1969 by June Johnson on behalf of her daughter - actually the amount was $100,000 in reserve of which Jim owed 25% held in reserve.
The June Johnson Documents are on this board but unfortunately we do not have any outcome of the trial. Who knows if the Doors won the case or lost the case.
The $5,000+ dollars - this amount is questionable because I have read on some message board, that money was given to Pamela for Jim's grave but I have no proof of that to share with you. I will research this further. There is no proof, in writing, that I have ever seen that indicates Pamela was given any money for Jim's burial expenses or money that was suppose to go towards Jim's plot. I'll have to check The End book to see if it has any information. Jim had money in his bank account at the time of his death that could have been used for his burial but his account may have been frozen at the filing of his death certificate. This remains a mystery.
It would seem The Doors took out some kind of loan for who knows what but they were making payments on it at the time of Jim's death and they wanted him to pay 25% of this loan.
The Doors Partnership Claim is asking for $35,000+ which equals Jim's 25% in the Doors Partnership that he was deemed to owe the Partnership at the time of his death.
I wish there were more documents on this subject but documents are few and far between and relatively difficult to locate unless you go directly to the court's microfiche system or someone who has access to these types of documents posts them publicly.
At the time of Pamela's death the Doors claims had not been paid as stipulated on Page 3 of the probate. The Coursons/Morrisons agreement to split Jim's estate was settled in 1975 so in 1976 there was still an accounting problem in this case. There have been no additional documents made available to the public as to the outcome of the probate of Pamela/Jim Estate.
If I come across any additional information I'll post a reply.
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Post by darkstar3 on Mar 8, 2011 21:18:04 GMT
"Seems shameful that they could not even write off a petty sum like this in lieu of the huge amount of money he would make for them in the future." From my understanding, the Doors profits and popularity were waning until the publication of NOHGOA. From that point on the Doors put a very specific marketing plan into action to find new fans and increase profits, which we have seen has been very successful. But at this point immediately after Jim's death, their future revenue was unclear. But to play devil's advocate...when would have been an approriate time to ask for the money Jim owed them ? There would have been no lawsuit had Pam allowed the amount to be taken from royalties (which I believe is standard practice). You make a valid point Kristy. Like you said it is a shame that the amounts owed could not have been just written off but as the old saying goes business is business. I guess it just depends on who ones partners are in that business and how they make decisions when one of the partners passes away. I have never forgotten what it is like to hear someone's petty remarks after the death of a man they called friend. I lived in California and I had a visitor from the east coast. We set her up with this other biker friend for a date. He was late showing up and we thought he stood her up. About 11:30 that night we got a phone call saying her date had been killed on Interstate 5 when a dolly fell off a moving van, landing in front of his motorcycle causing him to loose control and he was run over by the traffic behind him. Upon hanging up the phone and relying the message to other people in my apartment, one guy who owned a motorcycle shop said, 'I'm going down to the county offices tomorrow and filing a claim against his estate for money owed me. I was flabbergasted at hearing this. This persons so called friend, whom he had known for years had only been dead a few hours and what was most important was the money that was owed. All the guy said in reply to the stares was hey, business is business and I'm owed money. Just for the sake of discussion there was another lawsuit that was reported in Billboard Magazine filed by Ronnie Haron Mellon against Jac Holzman. She was asking for royalities she felt she was owed by verbal agreement. The case required the Doors record & tape sales to be disclosed in this case and it is surprising just how many sales The Doors had as of Dec 18 1971. Billboard June 24 1971 Page 10 ELEKTRA SUED FOR $285G BY PROMOTER Los Angeles – Elektra Records and it’s president Jac Holzman are being sued for $285,000 by Ronnie Mellen, local promoter and publicist. She charges that the sum is due her because of a promise made by Holzman when she introduced Holzman to The Doors and later encouraged The Doors to sign with Elektra. The suit, filed late in 1970 in U.S. District Court states that during the summer of 1966, while The Doors were performing at the Whisky A Go Go, Miss Mellen was, promoting them. Miss Mellen, in her suit, states that she encouraged The Doors to sign with Holzman and that they linked with Elektra November 15 1966. On December 8, 1970, Elektra and Holzman filed a counter claim in Superior Court here, where the Mellen suit, originated, alleging that Miss Mellen was not a qualified California agent and this counter suit seeks repayment of the $15,000 from Miss Mellen to Elektra given to her at 6 month intervals from 1967 – 1970. Several pre-trial conferences have been held in the interim. END. Billboard December 18 1971 ‘DOORS SOLD 4,190,457 ALBUMS’: COURT REPORT Los Angeles: The Doors have sold a total of 4,190,457 albums domestically since their first LP, The Doors was released in 1967, according to a recent report made in U.S. District Federal Court by attorneys representing Elektra President, Jac Holzman. Holzman is being sued for money due by onetime promotion representative Ronnie Mellen who claims that she brought The Doors and Holzman together in 1966, while she was acting as promotion girl for the late Jim Morrison’s quartet, when they worked a gig at the Whisky A Go Go here. The report further states that The Doors have sold 365,209 tapes on all configurations. Their total single sales are now 7,750,642 as of the report. Biggest album was their first, The Doors which is reported to have sold 1,234,919 copies. Biggest single came out of that first LP, Light My Fire which sold 927,140 copies. Suit alleges that Holzman made a verbal agreement with Miss Mellen offering her continuing cut on Doors’ royalties, while Holzman counter suit claims that she was promised 1 cent per copy on the first album. END.
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Post by kristyob on Mar 8, 2011 21:39:50 GMT
I would just like to say that I'm stunned and blown away with the amount of supporting documents presented on this board! It makes for a more intelligent discourse, which is such a pleasure. Thank you Darkstar for all your stellar research!!
But as you mention Darkstar, there are the facts and then there are the emotional aspects of a story. When someone dies immediate reactions can be startling and how people process the info is unpredictable.
I was just thinking about this last night. When I told my grandma's best friend about her passing, she debated on whether or not to send flowers. It was an odd reaction but I know grief is weird.
With that said, we are trying to determine the remaining Door's mindset after Jim's death. Let me add this to the fray...I recently saw Ray give a talk in San Francisco. Afterwards he agreed to sign autographs but said 'it has to be on something Doors related. No scraps of paper, this isn't a cocktail lounge'. In my mind, it was just another opportunity to make sure a profit was turned.
He also mentioned a new video/music project with his son based on the waterlilies in his pond. But he complained that they had trouble getting a distribution deal and that the 'middleman' is preventing the fans from getting access. Why not just put it on his website ?
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Mar 8, 2011 21:55:23 GMT
I have personal experience of this myself. My mother in law died on the morning we were setting off to go to benidorm. I had to go upstairs and tell the wife we would not be going and why......then sort out the holiday insurance to get some of our money back. It's a very stressful experience but I still maintain that they could and should have written off the money. They were musicians that had sold 10 million records (single and album) by that time so it was not beyond their wit to make a decent living from that. Jim gave them a lot of his share of things. They were supposed to be his friends. Business may well be business but sometimes there has to be something better. Pam had to put up with this for the rest of her sad life. Who knows what effect it had on her? A bit of common decency from the three of them should have been observed and simply forgetting the money matters. Of course their popularity was waning in 1971 but they managed to make a decent living as Doors MkII. Once they saw what was coming with the Doors resurgence they were in clover for the rest of thier days. If they were just bandmates and not as close as they have milked for 40 years then fair enough. But they have milked this, all three of them and when they had a chance to prove it they came up short. Sorry but I am still in the greedy fuckers court.
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Post by kristyob on Mar 8, 2011 22:15:11 GMT
Do you really think John Densmore is still in it for the money ?
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Post by TheWallsScreamedPoetry on Mar 8, 2011 22:24:23 GMT
Do you really think John Densmore is still in it for the money ? Yes and No....... nothing ever simple in the Doors world. But he did sign off on the shoe even if he did sound contrite about it on the Densmore board. And he did flog the Matrix album on the radio on Jim's 65th birthday. Although he redeemed some cred by doing the booksoup poetry reading on the night. If I thought that totally I would not want to let him buy me a large Gin and Tonic if I ever meet him
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adam
Door Half Open
Posts: 100
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Post by adam on Mar 9, 2011 0:21:33 GMT
dont get me wrong i like john, but easier not to be in it for the money when you've got the money already
but that's what separates him, he knows when to stop & how to give a little back
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Post by darkstar3 on Mar 9, 2011 0:26:41 GMT
I would just like to say that I'm stunned and blown away with the amount of supporting documents presented on this board! It makes for a more intelligent discourse, which is such a pleasure. Thank you Darkstar for all your stellar research!! But as you mention Darkstar, there are the facts and then there are the emotional aspects of a story. When someone dies immediate reactions can be startling and how people process the info is unpredictable. I was just thinking about this last night. When I told my grandma's best friend about her passing, she debated on whether or not to send flowers. It was an odd reaction but I know grief is weird. With that said, we are trying to determine the remaining Door's mindset after Jim's death. Let me add this to the fray...I recently saw Ray give a talk in San Francisco. Afterwards he agreed to sign autographs but said 'it has to be on something Doors related. No scraps of paper, this isn't a cocktail lounge'. In my mind, it was just another opportunity to make sure a profit was turned. He also mentioned a new video/music project with his son based on the waterlilies in his pond. But he complained that they had trouble getting a distribution deal and that the 'middleman' is preventing the fans from getting access. Why not just put it on his website ? You are most welcome for the information. I appreciate everyone's interest. This makes the research a pleasure to do. Every person acts differently at the news of someone's passing I suppose it all boils down to ones morals and up bringing. I know of several instances where Ray has charged people for autographs. This fact has been brought up over the years with a hint of disgust from journalists and fans alike. Even after the negative comments it doesn't see to have mattered to Ray as he still asks for compensation.
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